CT Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
sailsmen said:
Evil exists. In a civilized society we like to think Evil does not exist. Keep thinking that does not make it go away.
Click to expand...

I do not dispute this ^^^^^ fact. However, I think that the rate of mentally disturbed or maladjusted individuals has increased drastically in the past 50 years. More and more people are on some kind of medication to control something ranging from bi-polar, to stress, to depression, to ADHD, schizophrenia, autism, aspergers syndrome, and numerous others. The Pharmaceutical companies have a pill for everything and anything and are working on more "disorders" everyday. Big money to be had in controlling people's insecurities and idiosyncracies. And of course, you still have those who are self-medicated using alcohol or drugs.

Simple fact is that even slight chemical imbalances in the brain can cause erratic behavior .... not sure that such behavior can be classified as Evil on its own merits. Certainly, the outcome (such as in CT) can be considered Evil.
 
Last edited:
The real problem?

Bluerauder said:
We have insisted that God has no place in schools or in the public square, yet are surprised when something like this happens.
Click to expand...

If you notice whenever new like a mass shooting hit the media most times it covers people in Chruch praying. Like Charlie said we take God out School then run to Him and pray when something bad happens?

I agree Charlie sad indeed. Still I pray for the dead and the living in Ct.

R.I.P. Kids sorry we failed you.
 
I try not to impose my beliefs on anyone because I never want to drive anyone away because of a comment from me. All I would like to request is if anyone feels lead to pray for how to fix this kind of problem in our society to please ask for wisdom. God promises that if we ask for wisdom he will give it.

I just saw where another plot was foiled on Friday where an 18 year old student was trying to get kids to go to the auditorium where he could chain the doors behind them and open fire. Something is very wrong with society when this is coming out of it.

Here is the article below.
Oklahoma teen arrested in school shooting plot

Published December 15, 2012
Associated Press

BARTLESVILLE, Okla. – A Bartlesville High School student is in custody on charges he plotted to bomb and shoot students at the campus auditorium on the same day that 28 people were shot and killed at an elementary school in Connecticut.
Police arrested 18-year-old Sammie Eaglebear Chavez at about 4:30 a.m. Friday after learning of the alleged plot Thursday.
An arrest affidavit says Chavez tried to convince other students to help him lure students into the auditorium, chain the doors shut and start shooting. The Tulsa World reports that authorities say Chavez threatened to kill students who didn't help.
The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise reports Chavez planned to detonate bombs at the doors as police arrived.
The school district says students were never in danger. Chavez is being held on $1 million bond.
 
CWright said:
Something is very wrong with society when this is coming out of it.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^ statement really needs to be balanced with some perspective. Society did not commit this heinous act. A very disturbed individual is completely and totally responsible for the death and destruction of innocents at the CT school.

Society may be somewhat complicit in the fact that we have become so politically correct in everything we do and say. It is "wrong" to judge other people for their actions or their stated thoughts without knowing all of their background, their circumstances, their upbringing, their abuse as a child, and so many other things. Lets NOT say anything that might damage the fragile Self-Esteem of anyone. No one says a thing even when they witness the most outrageous acts. It is NOT my place and it is NOT my reponsibility. This is how and why so many of these disturbed individuals fly under the radar.

For instance, take the case of the Fort Hood, TX shooter. He was a psychaiatrist working at Walter Reed Medical Center. He worked with other shrinks. They ALL knew that he was "unbalanced". Instead of getting him into treatment or blowing the whistle, they decided it was better to transfer him. Not their problem anymore. It was someone else's problem. Now a bunch of people are dead at Fort Hood. This tragedy could have been avoided if his supervisor's and co-workers would have, could have diagnosed the issue and raised a flag to someone -- anyone to get this guy off the street and into some kind of treatment program. Such a story is repeated over, and over, and over again with the same results. Everyone knew that he was disturbed, unbalanced, violent, etc. but did NOTHING.

There's an old saying that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

That is society's problem ..... We have been conditioned to DO NOTHING. Of course, everyone cries and gets emotional after the fact. Only action before the fact will prevent a reoccurrence.
 
Bluerauder said:
Society may be somewhat complicit in the fact that we have become so politically correct in everything we do and say. It is "wrong" to judge other people for their actions or their stated thoughts without knowing all of their background, their circumstances, their upbringing, their abuse as a child, and so many other things. Lets NOT say anything that might damage the fragile Self-Esteem of anyone. No one says a thing even when they witness the most outrageous acts. It is NOT my place and it is NOT my reponsibility. This is how and why so many of these disturbed individuals fly under the radar.

For instance, take the case of the Fort Hood, TX shooter. He was a psychaiatrist working at Walter Reed Medical Center. He worked with other shrinks. They ALL knew that he was "unbalanced". Instead of getting him into treatment or blowing the whistle, they decided it was better to transfer him. Not their problem anymore. It was someone else's problem. Now a bunch of people are dead at Fort Hood. This tragedy could have been avoided if his supervisor's and co-workers would have, could have diagnosed the issue and raised a flag to someone -- anyone to get this guy off the street and into some kind of treatment program. Such a story is repeated over, and over, and over again with the same results. Everyone knew that he was disturbed, unbalanced, violent, etc. but did NOTHING.

There's an old saying that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

That is society's problem ..... We have been conditioned to DO NOTHING. Of course, everyone cries and gets emotional after the fact. Only action before the fact will prevent a reoccurrence.
Click to expand...

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those innocent children and their teachers who did nothing to deserve a lunatic going beserk in their school.

Charlie, as per normal, you are right on the money. I am 99.99% certain it will come out that someone knew about this guy, and did nothing. I can tell you from personal experience how difficult it is to get a EDP treated. Especially if they don't want to be or have been run through the "system" before. BUT, its so inhumane to just store these people away. Uh huh :rolleyes:, these incidents are increasing and will continue to increase due to the road this country is headed down. Its called a rock sled to hell...

May God help us.
 
For once, I agree with sailsman.

Yes, there is evil everywhere.

So why make it so easy for them to do evil things?

His mother was a law abiding citizen, as the vast majority of gunowners are. She wasn't evil.

But, that didn't stop this killer.

This SOB wasn't stupid. If there were a security guard present, he/she would have been his first target. And, the killer would have body protection whereas the security guard would probably not.

And, considering what the payscale would be for a school security guard armed with, most likely, a holstered handgun, someone slightly younger than I would most likely have that job, and I'm old.

There's no simple answer.
 
IwantmyMMnow! said:
Why did the mother have multiple guns in the house and how was the :censor: shooter able to get them?

I can understand having A gun, but more than one? The demographics of the area don't lead me to believe that multiple weapons in the home are needed for protection...possibly not even one.

I've never owned a gun; I've never felt it was necessary, partly because it was prohibited (living in dorms on military base) and partly because of where I have lived. The only time I've shot a weapon was for training purposes in the military.

And before someone mis-interprets what I'm saying, no, I'm not trying to start a discussion on gun control...I just want answers to my questions.
Click to expand...

Why more than 1 gun? A lot of people collect firearms, LEO's are probably some of the biggest collectors, Compare it to women collecting Longaberger baskets, to some, it is just an item to collect, I myself have many guns, not that I live in a bad neighbor hood, but because I can A) afford it B) want to C) legally can D) enjoy periodically go shooting E) Some of these are actually for my job.

How about this, why do you need to mod you car, you don't need more power or bling. Or, why do you have more than 1 car, you can only drive 1 at a time?

I think instead of trying to look at the gun as the object that caused all this, lets look at the individual, and more specifically the individuals that had knowledge of this goofs intentions, that is where the focus should be.

Want to protect people......stop making them gun free zones and allow individuals to protect themselves, these kooks will always "hunt" easy prey, the solution is not to make it easy.

Still...... many many prayers are going to be needed for those souls and the family's of the victims, please continue praying for them.
 
The perpetrators of these deeds are never in a mental state to worry/care about any preparedness of their intended victims or the consequences of their actions.
 
What Spectragod said, same here. Its not a need, its my hobby and was even before I was a LEO.

So lets say there are no guns. He stabs his mother to death with a homemade shank because knives are no longer legal either and then drives his mother's electrically powered vehicle down the school sidewalk and kills, who knows how many???

The commonality, lunatics are loose and its difficult to stop them. That is what needs to be addressed. The rights of a few should not outweigh the safety of many.

Find Morgan Freeman's take on this on Facebook. Very insightful and daring on his part. I highly commend him for speaking the truth. :bows:
 
Millions who are "Mentally Ill" never commit an EVIL act.
To determine if someone is EVIL you must make judgment on them. Making judgment as pointed out above is not Politically Correct.
Rather than accept there is EVIL many will say they were mentally ill, as in it's is not their fault.
New Orleans has had an EVIL presence for a long time. Were some who have committed EVIL acts "mentally ill"? Certainly. I can assure you the vast majority who have committed EVIL acts were not "mentally ill".

The vast majority of them know right from wrong and CHOSE to commit EVIL acts with forethought and mal intent.
 
sailsman, I agree there is evil in the world, but it sometimes goes hand in hand with mental illness. The most violent person I ever dealt with was a 18 yr old, 5'03" 105# woman. She was a complete loon, extreemly dangerous, and probably walking the streets somewhere waiting to pounce on her next victim.
 
rayjay said:
Find Morgan Freeman's take on this on Facebook. Very insightful and daring on his part. I highly commend him for speaking the truth. :bows:
Click to expand...

So Morgan Freeman says something you agree with, i agree with a guy on the front line Jack Straw.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...reduce-risk-of-massacres-says-Jack-Straw.html

I see nutty stuff spoken all the time on car forums, nobody has anything to say to them, i guess cause they are one of us? I dunno.

As Sailsmen said there are millions who are "mentally ill", impossible to watch\control them all, IMO.
 
kernie said:
So Morgan Freeman says something you agree with, i agree with a guy on the front line Jack Straw.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...reduce-risk-of-massacres-says-Jack-Straw.html

I see nutty stuff spoken all the time on car forums, nobody has anything to say to them, i guess cause they are one of us? I dunno.

As Sailsmen said there are millions who are "mentally ill", impossible to watch\control them all, IMO.
Click to expand...

Uhm, last I knew the UK's murder rate was up. Guns or no guns, people kill people, the instrument used is inconsequential.
 
IwantmyMMnow! said:
As I tried to state in my post, I wasn't taking a stance on gun control/who has guns/how many; I wasn't making a statement that people with mental illnesses are the reason this stuff happens. :shake:

I just want to know why the mother had them and how the :censor: was able to get them....THAT'S ALL!
Click to expand...


Uhhhmmmm, you asked why someone would own more than 1 gun, I answered your question.

Why does anyone have anything, because they want it. You won't know the method that was used in the killer obtaining them till the investigation is complete.
 
IwantmyMMnow! said:
As I tried to state in my post, I wasn't taking a stance on gun control/who has guns/how many; I wasn't making a statement that people with mental illnesses are the reason this stuff happens. :shake:

I just want to know why the mother had them and how the :censor: was able to get them....THAT'S ALL!
Click to expand...

I believe we will have the answers when the investigation is finished.

She may have even got them in the divorce, they are not cheap, or ,aybe she is a shooting sports enthusiast herself. The number of women involved in the firearm sports community is growing rapidly. Companies are making and marketing items just for women.
 
Just received this e mail looks like a very cool gesture of support

NEW YORK AUTOFEST
A CRUISE IN SUPPORT OF THE FAMILIES
OF NEWTOWN, CT


We are all shocked and terribly saddened by the horrific events in Newtown, CT. I have this unshakable urge to do something but in reflection, I realize, there is nothing any of us can really do to help the survivors and families of the victims. However, a showing of love and support could be appropriate.

I propose to organize a cruise to Newtown of at least 50 vehicles (preferably show vehicles) to simply show our support and sympathy. We could take the Port Jeff Ferry to Bridgeport and them drive North to Newtown. I propose that the first 26 vehicles in the caravan carry the name of one of the fallen, children and adults.

I first would like to see if there is interest among you to do this. I suggest we go on 12/29 or 12/30 which gives me 2 weeks to organize this. If there is interest I'll contact a local Newtown organization (Knights or Lions for example) to help us on their end. I will try and get a special porice from the Port Jeff Ferry and contact the CT highway patrol for a possible escort from Bridgeport to Newtown. Of course there will be no fee to participants other than you will need to pay your own expenses for the trip and ferry.

Club presidents and members, please pass this email on to your members.

Please get back to me ASAP so if there is enough interest I'll get to work on this.

For further information go to www.nyautofest.com, contact Leo at 516-882-5022 or leo@nyautofest.com





(IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE IMAGES IN THIS EMAIL BE SURE YOU HAVE "VIEW IMAGES" TURNED ON)


This email was sent to mja8g@hotmail.com. We are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wish to receive our special mailings. Since you're on our list this means you've agreed to be contacted occasionally by email. This is NOT unsolicited email. If you do not wish to receive further mailings simply click on this link or reply to this email with the word REMOVE in the subject line to be immediately removed from the list. Please do not click the SPAM button, this only makes it more difficult for us to know who you are in order to remove you from the list. The most efficient method is simply to respond as instructed. We honor every removal request.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top