my son has been suckered by a recruiter

whd507

whd507

Member
My son Matt has been trying to get in the army, while he's still in school. he wants to do basic during summer, then finish his senior year, and go active duty. I'm ok with that. what I'm getting increasingly alarms about, is ths recruiter isnt really forthcoming about details. he took him to take his ASVAB test, an he scored pretty low, but passing. I want him to re-take the test and score higher. the recruiter is resisting, and is taking Matt to his indiuction physical tomorrow. I shoudl have done more research earlier, but I'm finding most people in this program arent getting what they want, and that its to teh recruiters advantage to have a good number of "beta" inlistments (31-49) to fill less desirable positions. he has a year and a half before he graduates, so I dont see the rush. yes things may change in a month, but the deception from the recruiter and his boss, outweighs the possibility his slot will fill up in 30 days.

I dont know what to do, I cant even talk to Matt anymore, only the recruiter has any sway.
 
Not much you can do. He's a big boy, he has to learn his own lessons. Military is a good move, especially just out of school. If he can stomach it he could retire and then have another career afterward while collecting a pension. If he can only put up with one term, he can get out and learn a trade on the GI bill.
 
whd507 said:
I dont know what to do, I cant even talk to Matt anymore, only the recruiter has any sway.
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Unfortunately it's what's known as "growing up."

E-Dubb was the same way; from about 18 to 22 he figured I was the dumbest man on earth, but by the time he got to 25, I guess I smartened up a bit.
 
I think that I would go see the Recruiting Area Commander (now Company Commander) and ask for a sit down explanation as a “concerned parent”. The recruiter can set this up for you and can do it at the area office or at your home. Just ask for an explanation of your options. The area commander (usually a Captain) will be able to give you the straight scoop. I was an area commander on Long Island, NY (Suffolk County) and I spoke to many parents over my 2-years in recruiting.

Here are some things that you should know:

1. Retests on the ASVAB rarely produce more than a marginal improvement over the initial score. There is some risk that the score will actually be lower on a retest. If Matt scored a 48 or 49, he might be able to move up a category. If he scored a 40, it is unlikely that his score will improve by 10 points.

2. Here are the ASVAB Categories: The overall score indicates where the applicants stands as a percentage of all test takers. Matt scored in the bottom 50% of everyone who has taken the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test. The test is geared to measure “aptitude” not intelligence. There is a difference.

Cat I – 93-100
Cat II – 65-92
Cat IIIA – 50-64
Cat IIIB – 31-49
Cat IVA – 21-30
Cat IVB – 16-20
Cat IVC – 10-15
Cat V – 0-9

3. There is no inherent advantage to anyone to push Cat IIIB enlistments (what you called “beta” enlistment). Emphasis on quantity over quality ended back in 1978. It has been well documented over the years that Cat I-IIIA High School Graduates tend to stick longer and do better in the military. Cat IVs tend to have problems with discipline or adaptability and have generally been barred from enlistment over the years. Cat IIIB’s could go either way – depending on their attitude.

4. Qualification for a specific job in the military is not based on the overall ASVAB score alone; but is also focused on one of the nine (9) sub-test areas within the ASVAB.

GS – General Science
AR – Arithmetic Reasoning
WK – Word Knowledge
PC – Paragraph Comprehension
AS – Automotive & Shop
MK – Math Knowledge
MC – Mechanical Comprehension
EI – Electrical Information
AO – Assembling Objects

5. The individuals Physical Profile (PULHES) from the physical examination also figures into the process. The areas evaluated are: P=Pulmonary, U=Upper Body, L=Lower Body, H=Hearing, E=Eyes, and S=Psychiatric/Psychological. Yeah, I know but P was already used one. ;). Top score is 1 in each area. Top profile is 1-1-1-1-1-1. This is known as a "picket fence" profile. Many jobs in the Army require a picket fence.

6. The recruiter can tell the applicant what he MAY or MAY NOT qualify for in terms of specific jobs; but has NO role in the actual job assignment process. This is done by an entirely different person, a Guidance Counselor, at the processing station who is not even in the recruiting chain of command. Until Matt sticks his hand in the air and swears the oath of enlistment, he doesn’t have to agree to any job assignment.

7. Many recruits have unrealistic expectations as to what jobs they can qualify for. Everyone wants to be a helicopter pilot or mechanic, dental hygienist or brain surgeon or some cushy job with lots of technical training on missiles, computers, or electronics. Point of fact is that the sheer number of those jobs is very limited – probably less than 5% of the Army. Most of the jobs in the US Army are in Infantry, Armor and Artillery. That is where the most jobs are – that is no big secret. Since you are in Missouri, Matt may want to consider Engineer, Military Police or Chemical or even Motor Transport. All of these last four are trained near you at Fort Leonard Wood, MO about 30 miles from Rolla, MO.

As I said at the beginning of this note --- ask to talk to the Area Commander/Company Commander who is the top man for recruiters in that area. Hopefully, he can put your mind at ease. No recruiter wants to send anyone “down range” who is not happy. Deception (your word) can only backfire on the recruiter if allegations of recruiting malpractice arise. No recruiter will put his career "on the line" for the sake of one enlistment.

Bottomline to all of this is that it will all depend on Matt. Regardless of the specific job he picks, he alone will make or break his career. The US Army is a great place to start. He will be better for it. As he displays more responsibility and aptitude, he can move up and move on to different things within his career field. If things don't "click", he can walk away at the end of his enlistment with a set of skills that are in demand everywhere.

Best of Luck to Matt. Hope you get all of this sorted out and that things work out for both of you.

Sorry for rambling on.
 
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Bring him to KY and let Phyllis have a stab at him. Maybe a second, outside opinion may help. He really liked her in St. Louis.
 
the recruiter wont give us the line scores, then will call matt on his phone and tell him not to worry about it. his score was a 49, fist time was a 30. but he didnt study, and the recruiter didn't take him to all the promised study lessons, instead just hung out.

I don't have a problem with him signing up, but he is still a junior in high school and has no license, and has to live here a while yet. we are not going to be able to provide him consistent transportation to a duty station several hundred miles away(reserves while still in school), so this is a decision that fall on us as well as on him.

as I understand it, he has to finish basics, his AIT training and be assigned a duty station to get his bonus, the recruiter avoids the question whether he can do all three over summer break. so he avoids most questions about the bonus. Matt will need and is counting on that first payment to get his car/license/insurance to get to his duty station each month.
 
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thanks for rambling on. Matt wants to be a MP partly to train close to home, but needs to qualify ST-95 not having access to his line scores, I dont even want him to go without knowing. He wants infantry in the future when he goes active, so the low score may not hurt him there, but not having consistent truthful answers to questions is really bothering me.

I am hardwired to respect members of the United States military, and dont want to have this suspicious attitude towards the recruiter

and the attitude change has been sudden connected to this latest test.
 
I called an out of the area recruiter, and he was horrified with this chain of events, but now that my son is alienated from me, and wanting to make his recruiter happy, I no longer have input.

this is really getting ugly, its not what I had envisioned. its hard to be proud of my son, when my gut feeling is he's getting screwed. (its not hard to be proud of my son, but I'm still not liking the turn of events)

he leaves for MEPS on Sunday, and I DONT trust his recruiter to do right by him. I dont know how else I'm supposed to feel
 
Everybody has a boss. Get....demand the name of this recruiter's boss and talk to him. Maybe taking it apart at that end is the best route, if the guy gets in trouble for doing something he shouldn't, like not helping Matt study or falsifying scores, then it's not your fault and you have intervention. Worth a try?
 
How old is your son? He sounds really young to be able to join right now. Do you have to sign for him? At 16 or 17 a lot can happen in a year. The Army is still going to be there. This is a really big decision to make that young. I signed up just before the end of my senior year. I knew what my options were and that helped in my decision. And your right, I can't believe how stupid my Dad was when I was 18. He must have gone to college the entire four years that I was in service.
 
I spoke with his boss, and got pretty much the same thing word for word. teh only difference is the recruiter told him he couldn't re-take because he passed, and his boss conceded that he could, but all the good jobs would be gone, and Obama is cutting the budget so he better hurry etc. I wasnt impressed.

Matt is 18, but two grades behind. stuff that happened before we got him,(13) and had no control over.
 
Im no family matters expert but since its posted, Ill chime in: If he's 18 he's old enough to just go ahead and go on active duty. If he is two grades behind and 18 years old now and the Army willl take him, he should go ahead and go, he can complete his GED on active duty. You may want to advise him not to worry about training because he thinks it will be close to home, he should mentally prepare himself for just going where they send him. I have to say when I went on active duty when I was 17 I was a pretty immature punk who had never spent more than one night away from home, as it turned out the service was one of the best things that ever happened to me. At his age, hes ready to go, if he can get in now, Id encourage him to do it.
 
He's 18 correct?

That's old enough to make his own decisions.

If it's the right or wrong decision then he'll learn from it and be a better person for it.

Stop holding his hand.
 
whd507 said:
I spoke with his boss, and got pretty much the same thing word for word. teh only difference is the recruiter told him he couldn't re-take because he passed, and his boss conceded that he could, but all the good jobs would be gone, and Obama is cutting the budget so he better hurry etc. I wasnt impressed.

Matt is 18, but two grades behind. stuff that happened before we got him,(13) and had no control over.
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Not to be too harsh here, but I think that you also need to be realistic about expectations. He was Cat IVA and has moved up to Cat IIIB. He has already had a retest. You didn't mention that in your initial post. Matt is also 2 years behind in school at age 18. His options are limited. Matt and his recruiter may have already come to that conclusion. Retakes on the ASVAB are also limited. Personally, I wouldn't give him better than a 50-50 chance of making it through Basic Training and AIT. He will have to work on it and apply himself everyday. I suspect that he will not qualify for Military Police.

As to the "less desirable jobs" .... that perspective is in the eye of the beholder. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the grunts, tankers and cannon cockers. I use those terms affectionately 'cause they are the ones who are always at the tip of the spear and always get the job done day after day.

I hope Matt does well.
 
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Joining the military in my opinion is an outstanding move, but I do agree with on the ASVAP test. A higher score lands you a better job in the military, but there's nothing wrong gruntin' it out with the mighty infantry!
 
takedown said:
Joining the military in my opinion is an outstanding move, but I do agree with on the ASVAP test. A higher score lands you a better job in the military, but there's nothing wrong gruntin' it out with the mighty infantry!
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+1

According to Bluerauder's chart I was a Cat I, but in 1979 they needed Armor Crewmen really bad. I got a nice bonus and a kicker on my eductional benefits by doing so. You know what? I loved it. Went from M-60 A1s to A3s The M1 was just starting to comr into service as I left. Point is it is not always a bad thing. I assure you there are a lot of guys that would not be anything but a tanker or scout. Not meaning to sound bad, but your son may already have limited choices. He is 18, once he makes his decision you can not stop him, you may as well support him. Best of luck to both of you.
 
I would have been a Cat I also, went to aircraft electronics school, and several other electronics schools, I hated it, so boring, volunteered for combat service, finished my tour there.
 
He is 18 and sounds like he is ignoring you. Time for him to man up. See how he reacts when you tell him that the Mom and Dad taxi service has closed. Tell him dig into that wallet for bus fare or get a ride from friends. He may get p/o, but he will understand later. Sometimes tough love is the best love.

All you can do is hope for the best and be there when he stumbles. I lucked out back in the 70's my recruiter was straight up with me. I also had researched my butt off and knew what I wanted. I only did 4 years and regret not doing at least 20. I loved the Military life and got out for lesser reasons than I thought at the time.

Bets of luck, just let him know that without a doubt you love him and will be there for him.

I was a CatI and could have had any job I wanted. I became an Air Force Cop and am in that career field as a civilian.
 
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