Cam Swap Info?

musclemerc said:
I'm looking for information on doing a cam swap on a 32v engine. I've researched the topic and got mixed results, so while I'm waiting for Zack to get back with me on what he thinks I figured I would ask some of the senior member's for their input.
Can we do a cam swap with the timing cover still intact? I will be doing a DOT-to-DOT install and not degree them, some say yes, some say no. Which is it?

I will be doing this mod very soon with a set of 97 intake cams, a P&P intake with stock 15" runner's, and a 62mm TB.

:burnout:
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Why ask when you have the expert opinion, here is mine that is shared with allmost every other modular motor builder I deal with, big cams in a S/C automatic do nothing but destroy every day driving, sure at WOT the power is there at idle they SUCK, destroying idle quality, if you are are running boost big cams are not needed, but me being a novice here what do I know, but I just thought I would express my opinion and I respect yours.
 
:lol: You think a stock cam is considered to be a BIG CAM? :shake:

And by the way I asked about install tips with the covers intact so where is the EXPERT opinion?
 
Dennis Reinhart said:
Why ask when you have the expert opinion, here is mine that is shared with allmost every other modular motor builder I deal with, big cams in a S/C automatic do nothing but destroy every day driving, sure at WOT the power is there at idle they SUCK, destroying idle quality, if you are are running boost big cams are not needed, but me being a novice here what do I know, but I just thought I would express my opinion and I respect yours.
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musclemerc said:
:lol: You think a stock cam is considered to be a BIG CAM? :shake:
?
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I don't think he has a SC...

I know what you mean Dennis, the '96 cams make power higher in the rpm's than the stock cams. Big heavy cars need torque down low, so even if it pulls good up top the car will be a pig because it can't get off the line.
 
^^Not really. If the cams are advanced they will make alot more TQ down low compared to the stock cams. I'm set on ordering the Cloyes cam gears and keyways so mine will be advanced 4*.

Even if I wanted to do the Dot-to-Dot method alot of Cobra guy's are putting in taller gears and a slightly higher stall to compensate for the lost TQ from not advancing the cams.

Here is a link of an install with the motor in place with the timing cover intact, he did not advance them:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/mach-1-156/760575-cobra-cams-install.html
 
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musclemerc said:
^^Not really. If the cams are degreed they will make alot more TQ down low compared to the stock cams.
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^^^ I think you confused degreeing with advancing.

To degree the cams, you are setting them up "straight up", as a baseline, and also to make sure that the two banks are perfectly synched together. Using that measurement, then you advance the intake cams from that baseline however many degrees.

Advancing the intake cams will in effect lower the powerband slightly and promotes torque production.

When I first started looking into degreeing cams, everyone told me I was nuts, waste of time & money, etc. Now, 5 years later everyone's doing it.

To DR:
This is an N/A mod only. Installing these cams in a boosted motor would absolutely be the wrong move, you're totally right about that.
 
Why are you posting in my thread Dennis?

You made it so I cant post anything in your forum without being banned,
so please play by the same rules you expect from me before you start posting in my threads.

Your post will be deleted by the Admins.... You have been warned!
 
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massacre said:
^^^ I think you confused degreeing with advancing.

To degree the cams, you are setting them up "straight up", as a baseline, and also to make sure that the two banks are perfectly synched together. Using that measurement, then you advance the intake cams from that baseline however many degrees.

Advancing the intake cams will in effect lower the powerband slightly and promotes torque production.

When I first started looking into degreeing cams, everyone told me I was nuts, waste of time & money, etc. Now, 5 years later everyone's doing it.

To DR:
This is an N/A mod only. Installing these cams in a boosted motor would absolutely be the wrong move, you're totally right about that.
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I'm sorry, glad you caught that one. Yes I meant to say advance, not degree. I had it right in my second sentence for some reason it came out wrong.

Back to the degree/advance thing.

To start our timing setup is made with alot of chain. This by design will not be 100% accurate as a base, the factory was allowed a fudge factor that allowed them to get away with being off in some cases up to, and well beyond 6* between each cylinder head. This is why degreeing them in with a wheel is a MUST. If you just bolt on a set of cams the specs will be way off, look at it like this if your car came with a 2* advance discrepency from the factory between the 2 sides, then add a set of cams and advance them 4* your way off, one side will be 4* advance (the sweet spot)the other will be @6* advance due to the 2* discrepency from the factory

This is why EVERYONE is advised to buy 4 sets of Cloyes gears and keyways. 2 will be needed to get the 4* cam avance, 2 MAY BE NEEDED to get the car to -0- depending how far off the chains are from the factory

I've been up all night compiling info and talking with Zack about kmastl's MM so if my info is wrong here is a link from last nights conversation, na_svt chimmed in.

I going to get more coffee :sleepy:

http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1376705#post1376705
 
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I would be terrified that the chain may slip off of the crank. Last 4.6 I did valve seals on I pulled the cover and used zip ties to cinch the chain around the cam and crank sprockets so I wouldn't have to mess with the aligning the timing dots. How much more lift is a 96 cam?
 
Did a little reading. Looks like the cams have the same lift but another 15 deg of duration. Who's TB are you going to use?
 
Ill just say that I shall NOT be attempting this. JDM told me that they make custom cams and degree everything. Ill save my cash and hand them the car. It looks way too involved for the little bit of HP gain.
 
Travis, you got my msg about flipping the DS cam and keeping the woodruff key in the 4deg retarded if it was facing the same way as the DS cam gear. Hence the timing dots on both sides! ;)
 
Yes I got it. PM me your number Bill so we can talk. I gotta get my desk cleared so I can mod my MM.

That makes sense on doing one in reverse. So If I need 2* advance the DS 2* then retard the PS 2* and it will all equal out. I guess the PS runs in a reverse rotation?
 
Once you flip the gear, both gears, ds with concave side facing you ps convex side facing you, will have the keyway @ the same position as if both concave sides were facing you... :D In other words, you flip the ps gear over, but, use that dot for advancing/retarding just like the other.

Rob, he was trying some new head hydo therapy... :D
 
Can't wait to get it back. Hopefully going up there with bodyman on Sunday.
I will post the dyno numbers when I get it done.
 
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