Front End Alignment

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Gent4157

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I had my car at the front end shop Friday to see about getting the ware issue taken care of. The owner of the shop had never seen a Marauder before. He put in on the machine and said the software had just been updated. Well after hooking everthing up, he said the left front was a smidge out and everything else was fine. BUT after looking under the car he said I had to have a "Cam Kit" to do the aligning. He called the LM dealer up the road and they said they would have to order it. Something just don't sound right, is it that hard to align these cars? The ownwer didn't charge a cent, and was very intersted in the car!
I dont trust the local LM dealer, so should I go to another town and have another dealer look at it, by the way its still under warranty!
 
I was just at the dealer yesterday for mine they could not do it,they have to contact Ford to find out what to use for these wheels.They also scratched one have to see what they will do about it?
 
Contact an alignment shop that is experienced with high performance cars.

The original/alignment spec's are for a grand marquis.
Do a search and you'll find the spec's everyone around here is using.
 
Gent4157 said:
BUT after looking under the car he said I had to have a "Cam Kit" to do the aligning. He called the LM dealer up the road and they said they would have to order it. Something just don't sound right, is it that hard to align these cars?
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No, it isn't hard at all, it's just that no one has the correct specs. The local alignment shop that was recommended to
me by the techs who installed my blower, and by the tire shop I use, didn't have to buy anything extra to do my alignment. He DID discover that there's a "cam bolt retainer flag" that needs to be removed before adjusting camber.

Use these specs:

Camber: 0 to -.3 degrees.
Toe: Zero degrees.
Caster: 5-6.5 degrees positive with .3 degree lead on the right side.
 
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jstevens said:
Contact an alignment shop that is experienced with high performance cars.

The original/alignment spec's are for a grand marquis.
Do a search and you'll find the spec's everyone around here is using.
Click to expand...
NO "cam kit" needed. There are some "weights" that have to be beaten off. Seach here for the correct specs...
 
Yes. The "cam" kit he's talking about is the replacement for that eccentric bolt that's welded on from the factory, and if the alignment parameters have to be changed enough, that bolt needs to be cut off and replaced with one that's adjustable. I used to do alignments, and that place that you took your car to sounds to me like they really want to do the job right since they're willing to bother with cutting off the bolt that's welded on at the factory.


Most alignment places wouldn't want to be bothered with doing that, and therefore wouldn't have even told you about that, and would've simply set the specs as close as they can get them w/out having to touch that welded bolt, and taken your money. It's actually a poor set-up the way that Mercury has it with that bolt welded on there. And that isn't the fault of the alignment place that actually wants to perform the job correctly. It's Mercury's fault.

It sounds to me like you've found an excellent place for alignments. Like I said, I used to perform alignments myself, and trust me, I've seen some alignment people who always will cut corners and do the job halfway, just so they can get your car off the rack as soon as possible, and get to the next car. I'd have that place order the cam kit, and perform the alignment if I were you.

With some Marauders, the kit might not be needed. Atleast not for the first couple alignments. But there are three alignment settings, and sometimes only one of the three needs to be changed to get your front end back into spec, and it depends on which spec or specs out of the three that needs to be changed, and how far it's off from the factory spec as to whether or not that cam bolt will need to be cut off or not. So just because it wasn't needed for some peoples' Marauders so far, does NOT neccessarily mean that it doesn't need to be done to YOUR Marauder in order to get the alignment specs back where they should be.

Remember, there are good alignment guys and bad ones, and sometimes you can find both good and bad ones in one place (like the place that I used to work for). So if the place you took your Marauder to wants to do the job right instead of the easy way, then go back there and let them do that. I've never been a professional mechanic per say. atleast I don't consider what I used to do a "mechanic" position since I didn't perform repairs on cars. All is I did was perform alignments, and that's it. And the advice that I've given you here about your alignment, is based both on what you've told us here in this thread, and on my experience as an alignment person.
 
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BillyGman said:
Yes. The "cam" kit he's talking about is the replacement for that eccentric bolt that's welded on from the factory, and if the alignment parameters have to be changed enough, that bolt needs to be cut off and replaced with one that's adjustable. I used to do alignments, and that place that you took your car to sounds to me like they really want to do the job right since they're willing to bother with cutting off the bolt that's welded on at the factory.


Most alignment places wouldn't want to be bothered with doing that, and therefore wouldn't have even told you about that, and would've simply set the specs as close as they can get them w/out having to touch that welded bolt, and taken your money. It's actually a poor set-up the way that Mercury has it with that bolt welded on there. And that isn't the fault of the alignment place that actually wants to perform the job correctly. It's Mercury's fault.

It sounds to me like you've found an excellent place for alignments. Like I said, I used to perform alignments myself, and trust me, I've seen some alignment people who always will cut corners and do the job halfway, just so they can get your car off the rack as soon as possible, and get to the next car. I'd have that place order the cam kit, and perform the alignment if I were you.

With some Marauders, the kit might not be needed. Atleast not for the first couple alignments. But there are three alignment settings, and sometimes only one of the three needs to be changed to get your front end back into spec, and it depends on which spec or specs out of the three that needs to be changed, and how far it's off from the factory spec as to whether or not that cam bolt will need to be cut off or not. So just because it wasn't needed for some peoples' Marauders so far, does NOT neccessarily mean that it doesn't need to be done to YOUR Marauder in order to get the alignment specs back where they should be.

Remember, there are good alignment guys and bad ones, and sometimes you can find both good and bad ones in one place (like the place that I used to work for). So if the place you took your Marauder to wants to do the job right instead of the easy way, then go back there and let them do that. I've never been a professional mechanic per say. atleast I don't consider what I used to do a "mechanic" position since I didn't perform repairs on cars. All is I did was perform alignments, and that's it. And the advice that I've given you here about your alignment, is based both on what you've told us here in this thread, and on my experience as an alignment person.
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"Yes. The "cam" kit he's talking about is the replacement for that eccentric bolt that's welded on from the factory"... I stand corrected....
 
Alignment

I ran into a similar situation with my 03 CV LX Sport at the local Goodyear Dealer. I questioned them and they took me into the shop and showed me what they were talking about. They did a great job. :)

Dennis
2004 DTR 300A
 
The front lower arm (camber adjusting) cam bolt is not "welded on at the factory." It does have a manufacturing locator flag staked to its head. The flag is intentionally made from a weak, brittle material. A little creative prying should pop the flag right off. No additional "cam kit" should be needed!
 
Billy you are correct about finding a shop that wants to do the job correctly. I found one in an unlikely place, Sears. I had my truck in for an alignment and they said I needed a cam kit for my truck. They were able to get it as close to spec as possible.

Sorry for the off but somewhat related topic.
 
Pantherman said:
The front lower arm (camber adjusting) cam bolt is not "welded on at the factory." It does have a manufacturing locator flag staked to its head. The flag is intentionally made from a weak, brittle material. A little creative prying should pop the flag right off. No additional "cam kit" should be needed!
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This^ is very interesting info. Last time I saw the bolt, it looked welded on to me, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you're correct on that, and that what you're saying also applies to Marauders too. :)

Either way though, I want to stress the main point of my last post..... Whether or not a shop wants to perform that adjustment by attempting to pry off that flag you're talking about, or order a cam kit in order to do the job, I think that the important thing is that if they even make mention of this, then they're looking to perform the fornt end alignment correctly, even if doing so requires some extra effort. That's a good sign, because I don't imagine that they will be making a whole lot of money on any cam kit for this job, and I also don't imagine that this kit will cost a whole lot either.

In fact, my guess is that they will be making more money on the front end alignment itself, than they ever would on any cam kit, and the alignment will cost the customer more than the cam kit will. Furthermore, once this is done, a cam kit will never need to be purchased for future alignments. So it's a one shot deal.

I want to repeat what I've stated in my last post, but with a little more detail, by telling you that many alignment guys will simply "toe & go" your car. that's an expression that some alignment people have which simply means to set the toe-in adjustment w/out touching the caster & camber adjustments. Sometimes, that's all that's needed, but there are other times when more than just a toe-in adjustment is needed, but because the caster & camber adjustments on most cars takes more work and more time to change, many alignment men will just "toe & go" your car even if that alone will not get your alignment back to spec.

So when you find a place (be it sears or where ever) that wants to do something extra in the way of front end alignment, then that's a good sign since they often will not be making anymore money by doing something extra than the usual "toe & go" procedure since they all usually have one set price for alignments.
 
There is no cam kit available for Towncar, Crown Vic, and Grand Marquis including the MM. The "cam kit" you get from the dealer is the same flag bolt that is shipped from the factory. If you do buy it from the dealer, you or the alignment shop would have to spend time replacing it which takes some labor. The steering gear needs to be moved out of the way. So, you would be wasting a lot of money. Just pop the flag off as Pantherman stated and align away. It may be easier to grind the stakes off than pry the flag off. The cam is under the flag.
 
Since it seems to be creating some controversy, can anyone tell us WHY Ford places that "flag" on the bolt?
 
Warpath said:
. Just pop the flag off as Pantherman stated and align away. It may be easier to grind the stakes off than pry the flag off. The cam is under the flag.
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But then the "flag" would have to be re-staked, correct?
 
RF Overlord said:
Since it seems to be creating some controversy, can anyone tell us WHY Ford places that "flag" on the bolt?
Click to expand...

The flag centers the cam bolt in the lateral adjustment slot. The normally welded multipiece structure that contributes most to camber problems has been replaced by the single large aluminum crossmember. The suspension attachment points on the large casting can be very accurately machined. Ford found that, on an assembly line basis, they could get more repeatable camber by building everything in the nominal position, instead of trying to adjust camber on 60 cars per hour. The slot is still available (after the flag is removed), to handle the odd problem. You would never know it from reading the posts here, but alignment complaints are only about a third as high with the new system.
 
The bolt is made of steel or an alloy thereof, and its landing zone if made of aluminum, so can those two materials actually be welded at all?

On mine, after a professional, dedicated alignment shop refused to accept responsibility for wheel damage (in advance) and had no knowledge of how our newly re-designed front ends were supposed to be adjusted, (as I presented him with the a printout of the full write-up from our service manuals on DVD) I went to the dealership where I purchased the car, and had them do it with carfixer's specs (with my 16" steel rims on, they could not find the special fixtures for our wheels). When I got it home, I found that the camber adjustment bolts had never been tightened (after I personally provided them with the torque specs due to others here stating that their alignments had gone out soon after being set due to loose camber adjustment eccentric bolts). I brought it back, had them re-do it, then they set it to factory specs! I brought it back again, and they set it back to carfixer's specs, but this time, they left the outer tie rod end nuts loose! The mechanic that did this actually held onto his job for another year before being canned for shoddy work...
 
You cannot weld aluminum to steel using traditional welding techniques such as MIG or TIG. The melting points of the materials are too far apart. They can be welded together using what is called friction stir welding. It is basically a mechanical mixing of the two materials very similar to a electic food mixer (think the hand held power mixers with the twin beaters except with only one beater). The problem left is that the two materials are not compatible on a galvanic scale and there will be corrosion between the two materials. So, you can weld it at first, but eventually, I think it will be really weak or come apart.

To state what Pantherman posted differently, the flag essentially saves Ford money. It prevents the bolt from rotating when running the nut down which saves money and makes assembling the vehicle safer. But, it also prevents them from having to adjust camber on every vehicle when every vehicle is about the same anyway.
 
Thanks to Pantherman and Warpath for those explanations...I figured that making the car easier to assemble was probably it... :)
 
I need a new dealer.

Three days and three trips to the dealer and they "think" they have it figured out. I provided the CARFIXER specs and now they "want to know how to align to these specs."

Gent4157 said:
I had my car at the front end shop Friday to see about getting the ware issue taken care of. The owner of the shop had never seen a Marauder before. He put in on the machine and said the software had just been updated. Well after hooking everthing up, he said the left front was a smidge out and everything else was fine. BUT after looking under the car he said I had to have a "Cam Kit" to do the aligning. He called the LM dealer up the road and they said they would have to order it. Something just don't sound right, is it that hard to align these cars? The ownwer didn't charge a cent, and was very intersted in the car!
I dont trust the local LM dealer, so should I go to another town and have another dealer look at it, by the way its still under warranty!
Click to expand...
 
Did you ever get the alignment done? If not I've had good luck with Ray Pearmon in huntsville. Haven't had an alignment done yet, probally do it next oil change.
 
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