Front upper control arm frame attachment

Badger

Senior Member
Did a few searches on this but nothing came up. I noticed Saturday at our Capital Area Marauders meet that my car has a metal upper control arm frame bracket. Other 04 cars at this meet had this bracket composed of aluminum. Does anyone know why this was changed? My 04 was build in April 04 whereas the other 04s were earlier by about 6 months. I'll try to snap a photo this evening to help clarify...:confused:
 
Badger said:
Did a few searches on this but nothing came up. I noticed Saturday at our Capital Area Marauders meet that my car has a metal upper control arm frame bracket. Other 04 cars at this meet had this bracket composed of aluminum. Does anyone know why this was changed? My 04 was build in April 04 whereas the other 04s were earlier by about 6 months. I'll try to snap a photo this evening to help clarify...:confused:

Aluminum is a metal too. Did you mean steel?
 
I have yet to do the ferro test on it....so I don't know whether the ones on my car are aluminum alloy or not. They are a different design, darker color and different texture.

Badger picks up magnet and starts walking to car.
 
Its probably cast iron or steel. Cast iron/steel is cheaper than aluminum. But, it is also stiffer and heavier (for the same shape and size). So, it was probably changed either to save money and/or address an NVH issue.
 
Here's a picture. It's a ferrous metal. Probably steel. Anyone have fatique issues with their aluminum parts???:D
 
Badger said:
Here's a picture. It's a ferrous metal. Probably steel. Anyone have fatique issues with their aluminum parts???:D
Both my '03s (a 300A and a 300B) have the aluminum parts. That's a new difference as far as I know. I haven't heard or any fatigue concerns, but some people have complained about squeaks in the front end. Maybe some connection to that, or just cost reduction, only the FoMoCo internal sources would know for sure.
 
There was nothing functionally wrong with the aluminum braces. The new iron parts are cheaper, and, thanks to careful design work, not much heavier.
 
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Cast aluminum is a poor choice of material for control arms... IMHO. Steel will typically bend when cast aluminum will crack. Getting into an accident may result in a f'ed up suspension with stamped steel, but it's driveable. If the tin foil arms just crack, then you're SOL.
 
You struck my curiosity, so I went out and lifted my hood.
My Marauder was built 10/31/2003, and I have the same
black Control Arm mounts as you do. :dunno:
 
metroplex said:
Cast aluminum is a poor choice of material for control arms... IMHO. Steel will typically bend when cast aluminum will crack. Getting into an accident may result in a f'ed up suspension with stamped steel, but it's driveable. If the tin foil arms just crack, then you're SOL.

Not true. It depends on what you need the arm to do in a crash. For example, you may want the front LCA to bend to prevent the wheel/tire from hitting the firewall. On the other hand, you may want the arm to crack to allow the wheel/tire to move out of the way and allow the frame to crumple in order to absorb the impact. In other words, the wheel/tire short circuits the crumple zone. I'm a suspension engineer and have seen cast aluminum arm designs of each break and bend flavor. Cars are designed to protect the occupants during a crash. There is no consideration given to being able to drive the vehicle afterward. Aluminum does bend - just not as much as steel typically. Cast aluminum is a very good material for arms since the arms usually are lighter weight.
 
MENINBLK said:
You struck my curiosity, so I went out and lifted my hood.
My Marauder was built 10/31/2003, and I have the same
black Control Arm mounts as you do. :dunno:


Strange. Mine built about a year before yours (date in .sig) has aluminum.

Another small difference in our cars?
 
This is crazy.... thread made me so curious that I hiked out to the garage, picked and stumbled my way past all my other stored junk etc to reach where the MM has been sleeping, pulled the cover off the car and popped the hood. Mine are dark and appear to be steal or cast iron like in the photo. Production date 01/04. Am I becoming MM obsessive??
 
Cars are designed to protect the occupants during a crash. There is no consideration given to being able to drive the vehicle afterward.

I agree with your first statement, however if you're dealing with enough force to cause the wheel to come back and slam the occupants, I seriously doubt any crumple zones would work properly. I'm talking low to mid-speed impacts. I've seen cars where in a front impact the front suspension is FUC*ED and the cars have to be towed away. What sets apart a good car and a poorly designed car, IMHO, is one that can still drive away quasi-normally after a fairly nasty low to mid speed accident.

As for aluminum - look at any cast aluminum wheel that costs $300+ per wheel used on sports cars, "tunerz" cars, etc... They will and can CRACK the moment something hits it (another car, curb, etc...) hard enough. Lots of folks that live in areas that have nothing but dirt roads refuse to buy cars with alloy wheels or switch to steel wheels. From their experience, alloy wheels will crack eventually and cause leaks. I didn't believe them until they told me about how they have to refill the tires each week :eek: Steel wheels may be ugly but I've seen them take severe beatings and require minor repairs to fix. Forged wheels can be heavier and you're now delving in the world of form over function.

I know there are other designs that may favor one material over the other, but generally speaking if you use cast aluminum you will need more material to retain the desired strength and even then I have my doubts about their superiority in strength vs. steel.

Sort of a digression, but it's related:
There are engineers at work that boast about Zytel Nylon's strengths/capabilities but I have seen lots of Zytel parts simply crack when you hit them against a object w/o enough force applied (and they intended to use zytel in applications that are going to get hit repeatedly by blunt objects). Don't forget the coolant crossover cracking on the 4.6 intake manifolds... they're made of Dupont Zytel Nylon - the wonder polymer. I had to return 3 brand new Ford PI intakes because the Zytel cracked at several important locations during shipping. And it was packed in extra bubble wrap, newspapers, etc... in a box. Zytel is also used in Thermold/Orlite AR15 mags that crack if you drop them on a hard surface.

I haven't tested the material/design of the Marauder suspension, but I personally wouldn't want tin foil for any of my suspension components. I've seen too much parts/material carnage to give it a try! :eek:
 
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metroplex said:
...What sets apart a good car and a poorly designed car, IMHO, is one that can still drive away quasi-normally after a fairly nasty low to mid speed accident...

To me, what sets a good car apart from a poorly designed car is that the occupants' injuries are minimized or eliminated in any accident regardless of how severe. What's the point of having a vehicle that can be driven if you aren't able to drive it? That's what insurance is for.

metroplex said:
...I know there are other designs that may favor one material over the other, but generally speaking if you use cast aluminum you will need more material to retain the desired strength and even then I have my doubts about their superiority in strength vs. steel...

You won't get any argument from me which material is stronger base on material properties. However, you're paranoia about aluminum is unwaranted. Parts are designed to survive their environment and not be as strong as possible. Otherwise, we'd all be driving tanks and getting 3 gallons per mile. So, the aluminum parts in an MM are designed to be strong enough not to break or bend under normal use. A steel part designed for the same application may be just as strong. Strength being defined as applying the loads as they see in the vehicle and not material properties. Sometimes other design considerations add strength to a part which would otherwise be uncessesary. For example, the arm may need to be a specific stiffness which, therefore, requires the arm to be stronger than it has to be.

I've never had problems with losing air in any of the aluminum wheels I have or had. Its been no different than the steel wheels I owned. And MI roads suck.
 
You can build a great steel suspension, and you can build a great aluminum suspension. Each material has advantages and disadvantages. Aluminum can save a lot of weight, and machined castings can be much more accurate than typical stamped and welded steel pieces. To get both light weight and strength from aluminum, design and manufacturing must take into account the unique requirements of the material. The same can really be said for steel. It's just that steel suspensions have been around for the past century, and aluminum has only become common in the last decade. Thanks to computer aided design, improved casting techniques, and use of x-rays to spot inclusions, there should be no excuse for a "fragile" aluminum suspension. For much the same reasons, alloy wheels have gotten better in recent years. Our heavy Marauders all came with 50 aspect front tires on very light aluminum wheels (admittedly forged). I don't recall seeing any complaints on this forum about leakage. That itself indicates remarkable progress over what we would have seen only a few years ago.
 
You don't see any reports of leakage because no one here in their right mind would drive their Marauder on a dirt road. Go up into Lapeer county and you'll see all kinds of dirt roads that make pavement pounders feel like they're off-roading. :(
 
Badger said:
Did a few searches on this but nothing came up. I noticed Saturday at our Capital Area Marauders meet that my car has a metal upper control arm frame bracket. Other 04 cars at this meet had this bracket composed of aluminum. Does anyone know why this was changed? My 04 was build in April 04 whereas the other 04s were earlier by about 6 months. I'll try to snap a photo this evening to help clarify...:confused:
Now I'm really sorry I didn't make the CAM doo, and went to that stupid wedding instead. My '04 Built in Dec, '03 has the cast ones like yours. I guess the big question, now is, not why, but when? :D
 
metroplex said:
You don't see any reports of leakage because no one here in their right mind would drive their Marauder on a dirt road. Go up into Lapeer county and you'll see all kinds of dirt roads that make pavement pounders feel like they're off-roading. :(
Both of mine have seen many dirt roads. No leakage.

If the right side of the body is controlled by the left side of the brain, then only the left-handed are in their right mind... I'm right handed, so I must not be in my right mind.
 
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