In need of expert opinions...

R

Reaper948

Young'n
Hey guys,
So far I have the full Kooks exhaust (no ceramic coating).......this proves to be my only performance modification. However, sitting in my room is an RAI from JLT, and a box of 4.10s from Dennis.

I went back to the old days when this forum first started, sort of near the time I joined, and I went to do even more research on gears - even though an unopened box of 4.10s sit in my closet (Not letting my dad know I'm doing more to my baby!) ANYWAY I've already talked to Mr Mielnicki about the installation hopefully this week.

But the real issue is my research on the gears. A couple weeks ago I was talking to Cruztaker and I mentioned I had ordered the 4.10s, and he said they really wake up the car. After my research I found that most people said they had really wished to get the 4.30s AFTER they themselves had bought the 4.10s. EVEN Cruztaker!! Now don't get me wrong, I love my acceleration, but I also love my top end acceleration just as much. This unopened box is sitting here, do I sell, and then buy myself a new set of 4.30s?.......

What's also worrying me is vibration, if I am to upgrade my rear diff and my chip, that would take my speed limiter off. At 120, my car makes no vibration, what happens after those new gears

Also, I am close to ordering a Lidio tune, as well as pulleys - do pulleys help our two ton beast? Are they worth it........where do I get 'em? :)

I'm sorry to ask all this, but I am always yearning for more speed and power. I mean my bike gets it, but I'd like to have some insane oomph in my car as well. I would seriously appreciate all your guys' help. This is the only place where I can get my questions answered in full!
 
As far as the vibration, as long as they index your drive shaft, you should have no problems. In other words, make sure it bolts up to the rear end in the exact same position.
 
martyo said:
Go with the 4.10s. They represent a good balance between acceleration and top end.
Click to expand...
I fullyagree with Marty here^.....

And now the reasons why.....

First, I've had the factory stock 3.55's in my Marauder, and then I changed them and installed the 4.10's myself, and about 6 weeks later I then removed the 4.10's and installed the 4.56 gears (again, by myself).The 4.10's weren't enough for me with a Naturally aspirated Marauder. So I know for a fact what three gear ratios I had in my Marauder, since I counted the number of teeth on both the ring and the pinion gears of each gear set myself, and did the math before I installed them. So there were no mistakes about what gear ratios I had. And that was done before my car was supercharged.

I also took my car to the track back then and used the g-tech device on the street as well to compare the before and after times of each modification. And let me tell you that from my own experience with all three gear ratios on a Marauder, yes, the 4.56 gears kick butt and are the best on the dragstrip, and are also the best for smoking the tires from a mere dead punch on the street with a NON-supercharged Marauder. But there's always a price for all-out performance. And with the 4.56 gears that price is that you'll lose a little bit of your top end above 100 MPH. Now that might not make much difference to you since there isn't any great need to be traveling at speeeds of over 100 MPH on the public highways, but that's purely for you to decide since it's your car, your License, and you life.:cool:

Second, don't even think twice about 4.30 gears since you already have the 4.10's, because there's no way on this earth that you're going to be able to tell any difference on the street between 4.10's, and 4.30 gears, because there's so little difference between the two. That difference is so miniscule, that it would only make about one or maybe even two tenths of a second difference in the quartermile at the track if you're lucky, and you're simply not going to notice that difference in the "seat-of-the-pants" G-force feeling while driving your car on the street.

To illustrate my point, let me point out to you that with the stock tires on a Marauder equipped with 4.30 gears in the rear, you're only going to be reving at 120 RPM's more at 70 MPH in O/D than you would be with the same car and same speed in O/D with 4.10 gears. So if you think that a mere 120 RPM difference at even highway speeds is going to give your drivetrain and engine more mechanical leverage to make the car move faster off of the starting line to a point that you'll actually notice any difference just by the way it feels when you hit the gas pedal, then I'm sure that someone has a bridge to sell you too. No offense my friend, it's just high performance car reality I'm talking here. :) In fact even with the O/D button off and with the transmission in 3rd gear on the highway traveling at 70 MPH, your Marauder engine with the 4.30 gears will still only be reving at 160 RPM's more than with the 4.10 gears. So the tiny difference isn't even worth you running out and spending the money for another gear set. Anyone who tells you that it would be, is.....well, I'll be nice, and leave it at that. I'm not telling you that it's wrong nor that it's worthless for anyone to choose 4.30 gears for their Marauder, but only that it would make such a small change in 4.10's to 4.30's, that it isn't even worth your effort to change your choice of 4.10's now that you've already made that choice.;)

Now, one more thing.......I get the impression because of your choice of words in your post that your expectations are waaaaay too high for these minor modifications that you're talking about (just as mine were at one time before my car was supercharged). I'm not trying to burst your bubble nor disappoint you, but you're in for a big disappointment as it is if you're expecting to obtain "some insane oomph" from your 4,200 LB Marauder simply from a gear change, or an under drive pulley set, and a cold air intake. With all three of those you'll notice a difference in your before and after ET's at the dragstrip (maybe going from low 15's to low 14's if you're very lucky) which isn't bad, but you're not going to feel a major colassal change in the way your car moves just by driving it on the street in the way of acceleration G-force. So don't expect the car to feel like a whole different animal, because it will not.

Atleast two of these modifications that you mentioned in your post are worth the money, so don't think I'm trying to say that they aren't. But you need to keep your expectations realistic. The fact of the matter is that HP and performance costs money, and if you want to go real fast, that simply isn't cheap. You only get what you pay for in the automotive Hi-perf game. Don't think that you're going to put $1,000 into your car, and turn the thing into an animal unless maybe you buy a Nitrouis oxide injection kit ofcourse. Which is the only thing that will be close to that cheap and add some serious "insane oomph" to your car. (although that will also come with the added inconvenience and expense of having to fill the bottle every week with a daily driver, which BTW cannnot be done at just any gas station).

An underdrive pulley set will add no more than 12 HP at the wheels at best, and that alone will not be felt. If you're going to add that to a few other mods, then some people might consider that worthwhile. But all alone, it won't be noticed on the street. I haven't anything to sell you, and I'm simply speaking to you as a fellow board member based on my own extensive experience of modifying my Marauder as well as other V8 RWD American cars. So I haven't any reason to tell you these things other than to help you remain realistic about these minor modifications, in hopes that you will not be disappointed later on, after spending your money. So I'd stay with the 4.10's if i were you, and if you're going to bother making another gear choice, then go with 4.56's if you want something that will really make a bit of differnce over and above the 4.10's, because the 4.30's simply won't feel any different.

You might get away with the factory driveshaft with the 4.10 gears w/out it vibrating ( I did), but you'll know it if it's vibrating. It's something you cannot miss, and your passengers will notice it too, but it might only occur at very high speeeds if at all. Marauder driveshafts are longer than Mustang driveshafts and many other cars as well, so they can get "Loopey" during high RPM's (driveshaft RPM's I'm talking about). but you definately won't get away with the stock driveshaft with 4.56 gears (incase you ever contemplate using those). I wish you the best, and I'm here to help. If you ever do decide on 4.56's and are willing to make that compromise in top end performance, write to me first, because there's a special $34 part you'll need for that gear ratio that isn't needed for 3.55's, 4.10's, and 4.30's. And I wouldn't want you to find that out the hard way (like I did:rolleyes: ). sorry for this post being so long, but I wanted to try and answer all your questions, and I do get intense about ring & pinion gear ratios. It's one of my favorite subjects. :D
 
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Reaper, I have to agree with the others that 4.10 is the best overall ratio for street use. Will 4.30s or 4.56s give you MORE acceleration? Certainly, but at the cost of highway mileage and increased wear and tear. Regarding the vibration issue, just because you don't have any now, doesn't mean it won't happen after the gear change...it's more likely that you WILL have some, that's what the DynoTech AMMC driveshafts are for. Try it without; if you don't have any vibration, then you lucked out.

More importantly, you mention (seemingly as an afterthought) that you are close to ordering a Lidio tune. Dude, there's no "close" about it; if you change gears, you will HAVE to get a chip or handheld tuner, or you will NOT get the full performance advantage of the gear change. Not only that, but your speedometer and shift points will be way off...don't even THINK about not getting a tune.

As far as the underdrive pulleys, yes...they DO make a noticeable difference...not an "insane oomph" difference by a long shot, but they do give the feeling that the motor is "looser" or spools up quicker. Definitely a worthwhile mod...they can be purchased from a number of vendors here: Dennis Reinhart, Innovative Interceptors, Lidio, etc...
 
I don't know if BillyG stated it (whew!) If you go with the 4.10's and stick with current tire size, the balance between the gears and top end is about right.

If you Increase Tire size / rim width, then the 4.30's will have a ratio closer to the 4.10's. Vice Versa...smaller rear tires 245/45's and 4.10's will make it feel like 4.30's.

I am happy with the current set-up (stock tires / 4.10's) on my N/A MM.

Kook's, PI TC, rear cooling kit, tranny cooler are on there way for an install. #1 and #2 will definitely change the performance.
:beer:
 
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yeah, sorry for my long post. I guess the way that you can gauge my comments is by the following.......


If you have the Kooks headers, and complete bolt-on exhaust package like I do, then keep in mind that while I think they're great, and worth the money, I think they're best for the way they make the car sound. Yes, they made the car quicker, but it wasn't a night and day difference. I don't think any exhaust change alone by itself would make what I'd call a night & day difference in the way your Marauder will accelerate. The change was noticeable, but not in an extreme way by any stretch of the imagination.

So if you have the same exhaust modifications or similar ones, then you can judge my comments about what certain other mods will do for your car and what they won't do based on your opinion of how much faster you think the exhaust change made to your car.
 
BillyGman said:
yeah, sorry for my long post. I guess the way that you can gauge my comments is by the following.......


If you have the Kooks headers, and complete bolt-on exhaust package like I do, then keep in mind that while I think they're great, and worth the money, I think they're best for the way they make the car sound. Yes, they made the car quicker, but it wasn't a night and day difference. I don't think any exhaust change alone by itself would make what I'd call a night & day difference in the way your Marauder will accelerate. The change was noticeable, but not in an extreme way by any stretch of the imagination.

So if you have the same exhaust modifications or similar ones, then you can judge my comments about what certain other mods will do for your car and what they won't do based on your opinion of how much faster you think the exhaust change made to your car.
Click to expand...

First and foremost thanks to all the guys here who helped me out with my 'dilemma.' I can't tell you how much I've learned through the wisdom of my elders on this site. Thanks BillyG... I was actually really glad you put such a long post, I'm more satisfied with well explained responses anyway. So I guess that I'll go ahead and put the 4.10s, pulleys, intake, and Lidio tune.

I know that it doesn't seem like it to you, however, the Kook's difference in my car made me very happy, perhaps the Extreme I used in extreme oomph threw you off a little bit. I was just looking for that EXTRA oomph. Kook's gave it to me, now I hope those 4 mods I'm planning to put in will help out with the whole car as well.......thanks again
 
Okay Reaper. I'm sure that I can speak for many of us here by saying, any time we can help, just let us know. :banana2: (see I can write a short post after all!:D )
 
BillyGman said:
Okay Reaper. I'm sure that I can speak for many of us here by saying, any time we can help, just let us know. :banana2: (see I can write a short post after all!:D )
Click to expand...

Is that the longest post youve ever put up?? :P
 
Reaper, go ahead with the CAI kit also. I felt a seat of the pants improvement from that mod as well.

Good money spent with excellent results.
 
More, More, More-

I vote for 31 spline (Ford Limo?) axles (requiring matching differential side gears) and possibly a c-clip eliminator kit or else big Ford bearing axle flanges and Moser semi-floating axles (for safety and reliability).
martyo said:
Go with the 4.10s. They represent a good balance between acceleration and top end.
Click to expand...
 
BillyGman said:
I fullyagree with Marty here^.....

And now the reasons why.....

First, I've had the factory stock 3.55's in my Marauder, and then I changed them and installed the 4.10's myself, and about 6 weeks later I then removed the 4.10's and installed the 4.56 gears (again, by myself).The 4.10's weren't enough for me with a Naturally aspirated Marauder. So I know for a fact what three gear ratios I had in my Marauder, since I counted the number of teeth on both the ring and the pinion gears of each gear set myself, and did the math before I installed them. So there were no mistakes about what gear ratios I had. And that was done before my car was supercharged.

I also took my car to the track back then and used the g-tech device on the street as well to compare the before and after times of each modification. And let me tell you that from my own experience with all three gear ratios on a Marauder, yes, the 4.56 gears kick butt and are the best on the dragstrip, and are also the best for smoking the tires from a mere dead punch on the street with a NON-supercharged Marauder. But there's always a price for all-out performance. And with the 4.56 gears that price is that you'll lose a little bit of your top end above 100 MPH. Now that might not make much difference to you since there isn't any great need to be traveling at speeeds of over 100 MPH on the public highways, but that's purely for you to decide since it's your car, your License, and you life.:cool:

Second, don't even think twice about 4.30 gears since you already have the 4.10's, because there's no way on this earth that you're going to be able to tell any difference on the street between 4.10's, and 4.30 gears, because there's so little difference between the two. That difference is so miniscule, that it would only make about one or maybe even two tenths of a second difference in the quartermile at the track if you're lucky, and you're simply not going to notice that difference in the "seat-of-the-pants" G-force feeling while driving your car on the street.

To illustrate my point, let me point out to you that with the stock tires on a Marauder equipped with 4.30 gears in the rear, you're only going to be reving at 120 RPM's more at 70 MPH in O/D than you would be with the same car and same speed in O/D with 4.10 gears. So if you think that a mere 120 RPM difference at even highway speeds is going to give your drivetrain and engine more mechanical leverage to make the car move faster off of the starting line to a point that you'll actually notice any difference just by the way it feels when you hit the gas pedal, then I'm sure that someone has a bridge to sell you too. No offense my friend, it's just high performance car reality I'm talking here. :) In fact even with the O/D button off and with the transmission in 3rd gear on the highway traveling at 70 MPH, your Marauder engine with the 4.30 gears will still only be reving at 160 RPM's more than with the 4.10 gears. So the tiny difference isn't even worth you running out and spending the money for another gear set. Anyone who tells you that it would be, is.....well, I'll be nice, and leave it at that. I'm not telling you that it's wrong nor that it's worthless for anyone to choose 4.30 gears for their Marauder, but only that it would make such a small change in 4.10's to 4.30's, that it isn't even worth your effort to change your choice of 4.10's now that you've already made that choice.;)

Now, one more thing.......I get the impression because of your choice of words in your post that your expectations are waaaaay too high for these minor modifications that you're talking about (just as mine were at one time before my car was supercharged). I'm not trying to burst your bubble nor disappoint you, but you're in for a big disappointment as it is if you're expecting to obtain "some insane oomph" from your 4,200 LB Marauder simply from a gear change, or an under drive pulley set, and a cold air intake. With all three of those you'll notice a difference in your before and after ET's at the dragstrip (maybe going from low 15's to low 14's if you're very lucky) which isn't bad, but you're not going to feel a major colassal change in the way your car moves just by driving it on the street in the way of acceleration G-force. So don't expect the car to feel like a whole different animal, because it will not.

Atleast two of these modifications that you mentioned in your post are worth the money, so don't think I'm trying to say that they aren't. But you need to keep your expectations realistic. The fact of the matter is that HP and performance costs money, and if you want to go real fast, that simply isn't cheap. You only get what you pay for in the automotive Hi-perf game. Don't think that you're going to put $1,000 into your car, and turn the thing into an animal unless maybe you buy a Nitrouis oxide injection kit ofcourse. Which is the only thing that will be close to that cheap and add some serious "insane oomph" to your car. (although that will also come with the added inconvenience and expense of having to fill the bottle every week with a daily driver, which BTW cannnot be done at just any gas station).

An underdrive pulley set will add no more than 12 HP at the wheels at best, and that alone will not be felt. If you're going to add that to a few other mods, then some people might consider that worthwhile. But all alone, it won't be noticed on the street. I haven't anything to sell you, and I'm simply speaking to you as a fellow board member based on my own extensive experience of modifying my Marauder as well as other V8 RWD American cars. So I haven't any reason to tell you these things other than to help you remain realistic about these minor modifications, in hopes that you will not be disappointed later on, after spending your money. So I'd stay with the 4.10's if i were you, and if you're going to bother making another gear choice, then go with 4.56's if you want something that will really make a bit of differnce over and above the 4.10's, because the 4.30's simply won't feel any different.

You might get away with the factory driveshaft with the 4.10 gears w/out it vibrating ( I did), but you'll know it if it's vibrating. It's something you cannot miss, and your passengers will notice it too, but it might only occur at very high speeeds if at all. Marauder driveshafts are longer than Mustang driveshafts and many other cars as well, so they can get "Loopey" during high RPM's (driveshaft RPM's I'm talking about). but you definately won't get away with the stock driveshaft with 4.56 gears (incase you ever contemplate using those). I wish you the best, and I'm here to help. If you ever do decide on 4.56's and are willing to make that compromise in top end performance, write to me first, because there's a special $34 part you'll need for that gear ratio that isn't needed for 3.55's, 4.10's, and 4.30's. And I wouldn't want you to find that out the hard way (like I did:rolleyes: ). sorry for this post being so long, but I wanted to try and answer all your questions, and I do get intense about ring & pinion gear ratios. It's one of my favorite subjects. :D
Click to expand...


Billy - A very informative post. :up: Nice job :D
 
TooManyFords said:
Yes, a very good post, but no need to quote the whole thing again!


:D
Click to expand...
Yeah, heaven forbid you guys would have to read that, or even be tempted to read it all over again!!!! :baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :D

Reaper, yes I think that was my longest post(although I must admit that I have had a lot of other long ones in the past too. :rolleyes: ) I'm glad some of you did atleast get something out of it, because I didn't mean to be overbearing nor annoying in any way. :o Just trying to share my experience from three different gear ratios I used in the Marauder, while at the same time answer your questions too.:banana2:
 
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03whitemach said:
As far as the vibration, as long as they index your drive shaft, you should have no problems. In other words, make sure it bolts up to the rear end in the exact same position.
Click to expand...
Good point! But that's moot if they whack the flange off the old pinion with a hammer bending it.

:lol: Stay away from hammer-heads! :lol:
 
David Morton said:
Good point! But that's moot if they whack the flange off the old pinion with a hammer bending it.

:lol: Stay away from hammer-heads! :lol:
Click to expand...
True, I forgot how techs are, hit first look later.
Sorry, some techs.
 
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