I have recieved my 4.30's from DR and had a question. My friend who will be installing them said it would be wise to get inner/outer bearings and a pinion seal??? I think thats what he said, but I wanted to know what some of you guys had done. If I don't have to I won't but if it's something I should do than I will. Also what type of gear oil should I buy.
Question on gears
- Thread starter scareme
- Start date
I saw a tech putting4:30's in his Mach #1 today, and I ask'ed him about extra's he said the rear end is the same as MM .he said "crush pins" that's probably tech talk. he reccomended synthetic oil +modifier . Some one has posted 'm sure about this . I'm a newbee so I should leave it.
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Stephen Soulsby
RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!
Bradley G said:I saw a tech putting4:30's in his Mach #1 today, and I ask'ed him about extra's he said the rear end is the same as MM .he said "crush pins" that's probably tech talk. he reccomended synthetic oil +modifier . Some one has posted 'm sure about this . I'm a newbee so I should leave it.
It's actually a crush sleeve that you must replace anytime the pinion nut is removed. Also since you're already in there, it is cheap insurance to replace the pinion bearings and race, as well as the differential bearings and races. And since the axleshafts are already removed, replacing the wheel seals (aka axle shaft seals) is in your best interest. The pinion sleeve is the only absolutely neccessary thing to replace, but again, while you're in there...
BillyGman
New member
Nope, you guys missed a few things. First, it's called a crush collar, and as it was already said, you absolutely have to replace that, since they cannot be re-used once they've been crushed once. Secondly, you have to replace the old pinion seal. Again, this is something that cannot be used over once it's removed. You also need to replace the large pinion bearing. The small pinion bearing can be used again as long as there aren't a lot of miles on it, and it looks good. However, the big pinion bearing has to be pressed off the old pinion in order to get the pinion shims that are underneath it which should be used for the new pinion if the new ring & pinion gears are also the Ford brand. And when the clamshell tool is used to remove the large pinion bearing from the old pinion, it will likely bend the bearing cage atleast a little.
So even though both the large and the small pinion bearings can be used again, it isn't wise to use the original large one. So you'll need one of those rear end rebuilding kits which include bearings, marking compound, pinion shims, and a pinion seal. I disagree w/messing around w/the axle bearings unless the car has over 30K on it, or the axle bearings were making noise. It really isn't needed. And if the bearings in there are good, you're better off not taking the risk of removing them only to have a defective new bearing installed, which will have to come out after the job is finished(it happens sometimes). The same goes for differential bearings. If they look good, and the car doesn't have a lot of miles on it, leave em alone.
I did this job twice on my Marauder. The first time was to install 4.10 ratio gears in the rear, and the second time was to install 4.56's since i wasn't satisfied w/the 4.10's. The first time I performed it using a lift, and the second time I did it on my back w/the car on jackstands (a lot of work!!!). The second time I couldn't leave well enough alone, and I had to be Mr. perfectionist and remove the differential (aka "carrier") bearings also even though they were fine, and didn't even need to be replaced. Which only opened up a can of worms(long story!) and made things more difficult for me for no justifiable reason........... if your car doesn't have high mileage on it, then just replace what you need to. It's standard procedure to replace the large pinion bearing, pinion seal, and crush collar. NOT the carrier bearings, nor the axle bearings, nor even the axle seals(unless there was a problem, or the bearings are pitted). You don't even need to replace the bearing races either unless they're pitted or scored.
Ofcourse, a new pinion nut, and new ring gear bolts should be used, but those come w/the ring & pinion gear set anyway, and any competent mechanic who has performed the job before should know that.
So even though both the large and the small pinion bearings can be used again, it isn't wise to use the original large one. So you'll need one of those rear end rebuilding kits which include bearings, marking compound, pinion shims, and a pinion seal. I disagree w/messing around w/the axle bearings unless the car has over 30K on it, or the axle bearings were making noise. It really isn't needed. And if the bearings in there are good, you're better off not taking the risk of removing them only to have a defective new bearing installed, which will have to come out after the job is finished(it happens sometimes). The same goes for differential bearings. If they look good, and the car doesn't have a lot of miles on it, leave em alone.
I did this job twice on my Marauder. The first time was to install 4.10 ratio gears in the rear, and the second time was to install 4.56's since i wasn't satisfied w/the 4.10's. The first time I performed it using a lift, and the second time I did it on my back w/the car on jackstands (a lot of work!!!). The second time I couldn't leave well enough alone, and I had to be Mr. perfectionist and remove the differential (aka "carrier") bearings also even though they were fine, and didn't even need to be replaced. Which only opened up a can of worms(long story!) and made things more difficult for me for no justifiable reason........... if your car doesn't have high mileage on it, then just replace what you need to. It's standard procedure to replace the large pinion bearing, pinion seal, and crush collar. NOT the carrier bearings, nor the axle bearings, nor even the axle seals(unless there was a problem, or the bearings are pitted). You don't even need to replace the bearing races either unless they're pitted or scored.
Ofcourse, a new pinion nut, and new ring gear bolts should be used, but those come w/the ring & pinion gear set anyway, and any competent mechanic who has performed the job before should know that.
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studio460
[formally NBCshooter]
BillyGman:
Thanks for posting the helpful info. I'm soon to have a shop install 4.30s and a P.I. torque converter in my Marauder, as well as an SVO rear girdle cover/stud kit while I'm at it. If you happen to have your historic documentation handy, would it be possible to post a parts number list of all the replacement parts, that you recommended in your above post, when installing new rear end gears? Thanks!
Thanks for posting the helpful info. I'm soon to have a shop install 4.30s and a P.I. torque converter in my Marauder, as well as an SVO rear girdle cover/stud kit while I'm at it. If you happen to have your historic documentation handy, would it be possible to post a parts number list of all the replacement parts, that you recommended in your above post, when installing new rear end gears? Thanks!
pacammer
Pacammer
Synthetic Fluid
If you want to put in a synthetic fluid that does not require a seperate friction modifier use Royal Purple. It is manufactured for limited slip applications, no additives required. If you are increasing the horespower and torque of your car, add a new differential cover with a stud girdle kit.
Gary
If you want to put in a synthetic fluid that does not require a seperate friction modifier use Royal Purple. It is manufactured for limited slip applications, no additives required. If you are increasing the horespower and torque of your car, add a new differential cover with a stud girdle kit.
Gary
BillyGman
New member
Shooter, go here to order a rear end gear installation kit:
www.summitracing.com there are two ways you can go w/this. if you are the type who likes to be prepared for the worst, then type in this part # in the search window of the Summit website---> RAT-405K which will cost you $42, and includes the carrier shims which you most likely will NOT need to change.
If you are the frugal type who only spends $$ on what you need, then type in this #---> RAT-105K which will cost you $21 and includes the pinion shims, but NOT the carrier shims. There's a good chance that you won't need to change any of the shims at all as long as you're staying w/Ford gears.
The only other items that you'll need to buy can be had from your local auto parts store, and that is a large pinion bearing (there's a large one and a small one. You'll need the Large one, which is also refered to as the "head" bearing. The small one being called the "tail" bearing). just tell the parts store guy that you need the large pinion bearing for a Ford 8.8" rear end, and he will be able to easily look it up or order it. I suggest that you tell them that you want a Timken brand pinion bearing, cuz they're one of the best.Youmprobably won't need the bearing races, and you can buy just the bearing alone. When the work is performed, and the races are scored and need to be replaced,(which isn't likely w/a car that's only a year old), then the mechanic in question can get the races withing a day.
The only other thing that I recommend is the use of Loctite on the ring gear bolts. So get that at the parts store too. You want to ask them for the RED Loctite which is the permanent stuff. Most auto parts places sell and list the Loctite as "red" or "Blue", but if you're dealing w/a place that sells the industrial grade Loctite that's listed in #'s, then tell them you want #271 Loctite(that's the Red stuff).Then politely ask your mechanic if he would use the new ring gear bolts that come w/the ring & pinion gear set, and to use Loctite on the new ring gear bolts. It's just a good practice to do that(that's what I do).
www.summitracing.com there are two ways you can go w/this. if you are the type who likes to be prepared for the worst, then type in this part # in the search window of the Summit website---> RAT-405K which will cost you $42, and includes the carrier shims which you most likely will NOT need to change.
If you are the frugal type who only spends $$ on what you need, then type in this #---> RAT-105K which will cost you $21 and includes the pinion shims, but NOT the carrier shims. There's a good chance that you won't need to change any of the shims at all as long as you're staying w/Ford gears.
The only other items that you'll need to buy can be had from your local auto parts store, and that is a large pinion bearing (there's a large one and a small one. You'll need the Large one, which is also refered to as the "head" bearing. The small one being called the "tail" bearing). just tell the parts store guy that you need the large pinion bearing for a Ford 8.8" rear end, and he will be able to easily look it up or order it. I suggest that you tell them that you want a Timken brand pinion bearing, cuz they're one of the best.Youmprobably won't need the bearing races, and you can buy just the bearing alone. When the work is performed, and the races are scored and need to be replaced,(which isn't likely w/a car that's only a year old), then the mechanic in question can get the races withing a day.
The only other thing that I recommend is the use of Loctite on the ring gear bolts. So get that at the parts store too. You want to ask them for the RED Loctite which is the permanent stuff. Most auto parts places sell and list the Loctite as "red" or "Blue", but if you're dealing w/a place that sells the industrial grade Loctite that's listed in #'s, then tell them you want #271 Loctite(that's the Red stuff).Then politely ask your mechanic if he would use the new ring gear bolts that come w/the ring & pinion gear set, and to use Loctite on the new ring gear bolts. It's just a good practice to do that(that's what I do).
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Fourth Horseman
FSTMERC
So if I go with, say Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube, do I need to use a friction modifier from Mobil? In other words, does the friction modifier have to match the lube you use?
pacammer
Pacammer
No the friction modifier does not have to match the differnebtial fluid. If your Mobil differential fluid is not formulated for use with a limited slip friction modifier just add the Ford friction modifier and everything will be fine. Follow Fords recommendatioins for the quantity of modifier to differential fluid.Fourth Horseman said:
Gary
Fourth Horseman
FSTMERC
pacammer said:
Thanks, Gary. One more question, if you don't mind. It's been recommend to me (elsewhere, not on mm.net) to run the standard Ford gear lube for the first few thousand miles or so until the gears sort of "wear in" and then switch to synth. Any comments on this?
Fourth Horseman
FSTMERC
Well, nobody jumped on this said it was a bad idea, so I think when I get my gears put in (hopfully this Wednesday) I'll go with normal lube and switch over to synth in 5,000 to 6,000 miles.
pacammer
Pacammer
In new engine applications it is standard practice to put on 3,000 miles with motor oil, at filter change time go to synthetic. This allows the engine bearings and rings to, "take a set", wear in. For transaxels and differentials this is different ball game. If the gears tolerances are set correctly you want as little wear as posible. Wear opens the tolerances causing noise and loose play. It is prefered to use synthetic lube from the begining or at gear change.Fourth Horseman said:
Gary
Fourth Horseman
FSTMERC
pacammer said:
Cool. That's what I'll do then. Thanks.