Soft pedal

Mr. Man

Mr. Man

GAME OVER, YOU LOSE!
Last Summer I replaced all 4 rotors and pads and installed the SS lines when I had a chance to G2 the calipers. After completion of the job I thought the pedal was a bit soft so I figured there was air in the lines. I then had a shop vacuum draw the lines out and still the soft pedal persisted. Next step was to go to the local dealer and have them re-bleed the lines with their machine. Pedal still remains soft.

I suppose there could be still air in the lines but it seems unlikely at this point.

If the new pads were thinner than OEM could that cause this? Running out of ideas as to why the pedal won't firm up.

Any thoughts?
 
Still have the original master cylinder? They do wear out eventually, typically the pedal will occasionally travel further to the floor as it leaks past the seal internally.
 
Do you have ABS?

Did the shop cycle your ABS pump when they bled your brakes?

If you hold pressure on the brake pedal, does the pedal compress to the floor?
If so, you have a bad master cylinder.

Depending on if you have ABS or not, will determine which master cylinder you need, they are specific.

Thinner pads doesn't = more pedal travel.
 
Spectragod said:
Do you have ABS?

Did the shop cycle your ABS pump when they bled your brakes?

If you hold pressure on the brake pedal, does the pedal compress to the floor?
If so, you have a bad master cylinder.

Depending on if you have ABS or not, will determine which master cylinder you need, they are specific.

Thinner pads doesn't = more pedal travel.
Click to expand...

What he said^^^^^^^^^^

I bet it's either a bad MC


or the ABS needs to be cycled.
 
Spectragod said:
Do you have ABS? Yes

Did the shop cycle your ABS pump when they bled your brakes? NO

If you hold pressure on the brake pedal, does the pedal compress to the floor?
If so, you have a bad master cylinder. Do you do this test with the car running? How quickly will the pedal compress, right away or say over the course of a minute or so?

Depending on if you have ABS or not, will determine which master cylinder you need, they are specific.

Thinner pads doesn't = more pedal travel.
Click to expand...
Thank Darrin I'll look into this. :)
 
With the car running, hold pressure on the brake pedal, if it sinks to the floor with the normal amount of pressure that you use to break, you'll need to replace the master cylinder.

If the shop didn't cycle the ABS pump when bleeding your brakes, I'll bet that's where your problem is.
 
I will note that my experience with master cylinders has often been that their failure mode is intermittent long before it can be reproduced at will, ie: hold the pedal and it will slowly bleed down every time.

That said, air in the system is the typical cause for spongy pedal. Many claim that bleeding while cycling the ABS is unnecessary, they have bled it the normal way and "it works fine", etc. While it may be true that some have gotten away without doing this, I don't find these tales compelling and I would be tempted to either buy the Ford IDS tool or hire a proper bleed job.

Long term, owning the Ford IDS tool is ideal . . .
 
lifespeed said:
I will note that my experience with master cylinders has often been that their failure mode is intermittent long before it can be reproduced at will, ie: hold the pedal and it will slowly bleed down every time.

That said, air in the system is the typical cause for spongy pedal. Many claim that bleeding while cycling the ABS is unnecessary, they have bled it the normal way and "it works fine", etc. While it may be true that some have gotten away without doing this, I don't find these tales compelling and I would be tempted to either buy the Ford IDS tool or hire a proper bleed job.

Long term, owning the Ford IDS tool is ideal . . .
Click to expand...
Do you think this, http://www.tmart.com/IDS-VCM-Diagno...aign=product&gclid=CJqh27uZ_bYCFYtT4AoddhYAWg, would be the right tool?
 
That's what the description said.
It appears that there is a problem w/"clones" made in China - like this one in the link.
Gonna have to do a little more research.
 
lifespeed said:
I will note that my experience with master cylinders has often been that their failure mode is intermittent long before it can be reproduced at will, ie: hold the pedal and it will slowly bleed down every time.

That said, air in the system is the typical cause for spongy pedal. Many claim that bleeding while cycling the ABS is unnecessary, they have bled it the normal way and "it works fine", etc. While it may be true that some have gotten away without doing this, I don't find these tales compelling and I would be tempted to either buy the Ford IDS tool or hire a proper bleed job.

Long term, owning the Ford IDS tool is ideal . . .
Click to expand...

I feel fortunate as I have done sooo many brake line related items on these as well as countless other Ford products and never once had an issue.

S.S. brake lines, line locks, calipers off for a day or two for painting, nothing. Pure luck, I know it. My days are numbered...

So which tool will do the most for the buck and which ones are a little overboard on features?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.
 
Spectragod said:
Depending on if you have ABS or not, will determine which master cylinder you need, they are specific.
Click to expand...

All '03-'04 Marauders had ABS.

I think you meant Traction Control. There are two different master cylinders specified for these cars - one for cars with TC and one for cars without. If I recall correctly the pricing for both masters is about the same and is about $95.

The master can be replaced without cycling if it is properly bench bled but the cycling tool does make it a bit easier.

The situation described by the OP in this thread sounds like a failing master if the pedal is going soft under foot.
 
martyo said:
All '03-'04 Marauders had ABS.

I think you meant Traction Control. There are two different master cylinders specified for these cars - one for cars with TC and one for cars without. If I recall correctly the pricing for both masters is about the same and is about $95.

The master can be replaced without cycling if it is properly bench bled but the cycling tool does make it a bit easier.

The situation described by the OP in this thread sounds like a failing master if the pedal is going soft under foot.
Click to expand...

You are correct Marty, that's what I get for responding via my phone and not proof reading.

I just used a Snap On Solus to cycle mine while bleeding the system, worked great...........
 
Went out and did the suggested test on brake pedal travel. The pedal easily went down about half way and then became firm. I had Paula press on the pedal while I put my ear to the master cylinder area to see if I could hear anything. Well after Paula nearly killed me by pushing on the gas pedal and revving the engine to 6000rpm we tried again and all I heard was a slight suctionee sound. Not sure if that is a normal sound or not. I don't see any dripage or leaking at the master cylinder and the fluid level seems appropriate.

Thoughts or questions? :)
 
Mr. Man said:
Went out and did the suggested test on brake pedal travel. The pedal easily went down about half way and then became firm. I had Paula press on the pedal while I put my ear to the master cylinder area to see if I could hear anything. Well after Paula nearly killed me by pushing on the gas pedal and revving the engine to 6000rpm we tried again and all I heard was a slight suctionee sound. Not sure if that is a normal sound or not. I don't see any dripage or leaking at the master cylinder and the fluid level seems appropriate.

Thoughts or questions? :)
Click to expand...

You probably won't hear anything if the MC is bad. The seals inside can be not holding pressure.

Check INSIDE the car where the brake pedal shaft comes through the firewall. See if there is any brake fluid.
 
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