The Fiscal Cliff -- 48 days and Counting

[PonyUP]

My comments in RED ^^^^

Thanks Charlie, great information on the F35
It was two prototypes being built, I had the privelage of a private tour because of a program we did with Lockheed Martin at one of my hotels.

The military is a tricky cut, and I am most definitely out of my element on it. Yes it would take an act of congress to do the things I'm talking about, and it is definitely outside the box thinking, but at least would keep our troops employed and their families secure. We have boarders that are easy to smuggle across due to their size.

But I will grant you it is a slippery slope.

We may not have the answers, but at least can talk about solutions and respect all ideas. Now if our government could only do the same


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[yjmud]

canada the 52cnd state

 

[Spectragod]

Charlie one thing that I think people overlook is that for every soldier the USA has you can probably double or triple that number when it comes to kill ratios, maybe more considering the technology weapons the US can deploy.

Really????? How did that work out for the Americans at the Consulate in Benghazi?

 

[Bigdogjim]

I feel the day's of a convental war are long gone. I doubt the need will arise for a "full scale" war anywhere in the World. Too many deterrants to that.

 

[kernie]

..............

 

[Bluerauder]

We may not have the answers, but at least can talk about solutions and respect all ideas. Now if our government could only do the same ��

Here, Here :toast: ... I am with you on that. The key to solving this will be compromise and a willingness to listen to the other guy's point of view. There is much truth in both sides.

Cuts can not just focus on Defense or other Discretionary budget agencies like Homeland Defense, Agriculture, Treasury, DOE, DOJ. Department of Education, DOT, etc. and all the other various government entities.

Entitlement spending MUST also be looked at.

Take a look at the qualification requirements for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) aka "Food Stamps" in the District of Columbia. You don't have to provide a picture ID to verify WHO YOU ARE. It is GOOD ENOUGH to bring a relative, friend or neighbor who can validate who you are and where you live. REALLY??? Not much room for fraud and waste in that set-up is there? Nothing to prevent a person from registering multiple times under different names and even in different states under those rules. I have to show an ID to get into work. Why shouldn't these people be required to prove who they are to prevent fraud to get SNAP.

I am sure that there are similar "qualification" loop holes in TANF, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. If a ship had that many leaks, it would be on the bottom of the ocean.

My daughter teaches 3rd grade. She says that half of the kids at the school are on the Free and Reduced Lunch program. This school serves an area with $500-600K homes. Townhouses are $250-300K easily. Median incomes are near $90K. How in hell can anybody qualify to pay a mortgage on a half million dollar home and still be eligible for free lunches at school? It just doesn't add up in my opinion.

 

[PonyUP]

Here, Here ... I am with you on that. The key to solving this will be compromise and a willingness to listen to the other guy's point of view. There is much truth in both sides.

Cuts can not just focus on Defense or other Discretionary budget agencies like Homeland Defense, Agriculture, Treasury, DOE, DOJ. Department of Education, DOT, etc. and all the other various government entities.

Entitlement spending MUST also be looked at.

Take a look at the qualification requirements for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) aka "Food Stamps" in the District of Columbia. You don't have to provide a picture ID to verify WHO YOU ARE. It is GOOD ENOUGH to bring a relative, friend or neighbor who can validate who you are and where you live. REALLY??? Not much room for fraud and waste in that set-up is there? Nothing to prevent a person from registering multiple times under different names and even in different states under those rules. I have to show an ID to get into work. Why shouldn't these people be required to prove who they are to prevent fraud to get SNAP.

I am sure that there are similar "qualification" loop holes in TANF, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. If a ship had that many leaks, it would be on the bottom of the ocean.

My daughter teaches 3rd grade. She says that half of the kids at the school are on the Free and Reduced Lunch program. This school serves an area with $500-600K homes. Townhouses are $250-300K easily. Median incomes are near $90K. How in hell can anybody qualify to pay a mortgage on a half million dollar home and still be eligible for free lunches at school? It just doesn't add up in my opinion.

I'm with you on that Charlie. Welfare and food stamps are good ideas in principal, but seem to lack the regulation that is so pertinent in other programs.

I support the need for food stamps for a person or family down on there luck. But photo Id's should be required and proof that you have actively been looking for a job, as well as random drug testing. I'll bet that could save billions alone.

Loopholes seem to rule, and there is zero regulation to it.

There are times we are 50 states and times we are one nation.

I'd like to see the government try and crack down on the freeloaders like they try do with the 1%, oil companies, banks and credit cards.

There are definite times we need regulation and welfare is one of them


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[Joe Walsh]

Everyone can argue as much as they like....we are ALL already royally F'd!

I always thought that if we cut government spending and eliminated some of the many, overlapping, government agencies that we could balance the budget....WRONG!!

Has anyone seen this little eye opening video???

 

[IwantmyMMnow!]

I've been reading this thread all day today...have tried several times to post my thoughts/opinions in some sort of rational expression, but can't seem to get them together. Here are some of them...

--In America, it's more important to make/have/do something right NOW vs right....instant gratification; most are not willing to put time/effort into something for the long haul, and in today's society, 'long haul' is defined as more than a couple years.

--"Freebies"...too many getting them, not enough manpower to track who's getting what. Also, people complain that the 'freebie' they got isn't as good as what others have to pay for.

--Spending...we have a government that is spending beyond it's means...any surprise its citizens are doing the same?

--Politics...95% crooked. New faces, same behaviors.

--Us vs them mentality...I personally don't give a ***** who's to blame...we have serious problems and need to put our fingers in our pockets and fix it! After it gets fixed, then we can have a finger-pointing party.

--Accountability/Integrity...do these even exist any more?

--Most workers expect bonuses/raises/etc just for doing their job; you want a pat on the back because you weren't late, didn't leave early, took a regular lunch hour, and accomplished the tasks your boss asked you to do...every day...really?

I dunno...I'm just overwhelmed trying to voice my opinion on this matter. I'll admit that I've had my head in the sand, but not because I want to...I feel I have no other choice....

 

[Joe Walsh]

I've been reading this thread all day today...have tried several times to post my thoughts/opinions in some sort of rational expression, but can't seem to get them together. Here are some of them...

--In America, it's more important to make/have/do something right NOW vs right....instant gratification; most are not willing to put time/effort into something for the long haul, and in today's society, 'long haul' is defined as more than a couple years.

--"Freebies"...too many getting them, not enough manpower to track who's getting what. Also, people complain that the 'freebie' they got isn't as good as what others have to pay for.

--Spending...we have a government that is spending beyond it's means...any surprise its citizens are doing the same?

--Politics...95% crooked. New faces, same behaviors.

--Us vs them mentality...I personally don't give a ***** who's to blame...
we have serious problems and need to put our fingers in our pockets and fix it! After it gets fixed, then we can have a finger-pointing party.
--Accountability/Integrity...do these even exist any more?

--Most workers expect bonuses/raises/etc just for doing their job; you want a pat on the back because you weren't late, didn't leave early, took a regular lunch hour, and accomplished the tasks your boss asked you to do...every day...really?

I dunno...I'm just overwhelmed trying to voice my opinion on this matter. I'll admit that I've had my head in the sand, but not because I want to...I feel I have no other choice....

Agreed....
Except that the politicians already have their fingers in our pockets!
And I'm not offering up ONE EXTRA FRIGGIN' CENT until they quit wasting money and come up with a REAL plan to fix this mess!......:mad2:

 

[GAMike]

You guys are all smarter than me. All I know is, during this process if we don't:
1. Adjust the tax code to remove loopholes and include more of the population on the tax paying roles...

2. Develop a pro business tax structure that brings business back stateside vs. offshore...

3. Reduce the scope of what the Federal Govt. exists for... Establish priorities based on that new mission and identify, then remove the buying of votes with taxpayer dollars for all programs outsite that scope..

4. Programs that assist taxpayers need to be higher than programs that benefit deadbeats.....


We are as Joe so eloquently put it...... "F'd"....... I do know this.... That press conference yesterday was a joke... If that is how Obama intends to lead this country for the next 4 years.... Wow.......

 

[Gordy]

............................

 

[Haggis]

We are as Joe so eloquently put it...... "F'd"....... I do know this.... That press conference yesterday was a joke... If that is how Obama intends to lead this country for the next 4 years.... Wow.......

Like I have stated, I am planning on going off the grid as much as possible. Friend and family if you want to join me you are more then welcomed.

 

[sailsmen]

As respects the Federal Income Tax Code if as they say they truly only want to tax the "Rich" with out killing jobs they would keep the current income tax rates for income from an entity to an owner that is taxed as an individual. Simply put a business owner who is taxed as an individual would keep the current income tax rates.
This would allow small business, where 80% of job growth is, to keep the current income tax rates and encourage the forming of small businesses.
There is talk of having capital gains and dividends taxed the same as income tax rates. If you want less of something tax it.
If you started a business and sold it 2 years latter for $100,000 you would pay a 15% capital gain and net $85,000.
Taxing the sale of the business as income tax rates at the current top marginal rate for $100,000 and net $65,000 or 24% less.
Small Businesses across the Nation would be devalued over nite resulting in loans being called, lines of credit yanked and/or reduced.

 

[sailsmen]

Agreed....
Except that the politicians already have their fingers in our pockets!
And I'm not offering up ONE EXTRA FRIGGIN' CENT until they quit wasting money and come up with a REAL plan to fix this mess!......:mad2:

Why haven't all the GAO's recs from 2011 and again in Feb 2012 to save billions and billions in duplication been implemented????

Could it be it has nothing to do with the Gov't providing services and/or benefits? Could it be it is solely about income redistribution by Gov't taking money and spending it?????

 

[PonyUP]

As respects the Federal Income Tax Code if as they say they truly only want to tax the "Rich" with out killing jobs they would keep the current income tax rates for income from an entity to an owner that is taxed as an individual. Simply put a business owner who is taxed as an individual would keep the current income tax rates.
This would allow small business, where 80% of job growth is, to keep the current income tax rates and encourage the forming of small businesses.
There is talk of having capital gains and dividends taxed the same as income tax rates. If you want less of something tax it.
If you started a business and sold it 2 years latter for $100,000 you would pay a 15% capital gain and net $85,000.
Taxing the sale of the business as income tax rates at the current top marginal rate for $100,000 and net $65,000 or 24% less.
Small Businesses across the Nation would be devalued over nite resulting in loans being called, lines of credit yanked and/or reduced.

Recent history shows raising taxes actually help. The first decade of the new century under tax cuts, was already on pace for struggling growth. By 2007 the economy was already on pace for its slowest decade of growth since World War II. Then the collapse happened and erased the less than mediocre gains.
Reagan raised taxes, as did Bush Senior and Clinton, but most of the taxes have been cut over the last 12 years.
In my opinion, tax cuts have not necessarily helped. Raising taxes, closing loopholes could be the medicine we are looking for. It tastes terrible going down, but is for our overall health


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[yjmud]

"In my opinion, tax cuts have not necessarily helped. Raising taxes, closing loopholes could be the medicine we are looking for. It tastes terrible going down, but is for our overall health"
+ cut spending

 

[SC Cheesehead]

"In my opinion, tax cuts have not necessarily helped. Raising taxes, closing loopholes could be the medicine we are looking for. It tastes terrible going down, but is for our overall health"
+ cut spending

BIG cuts.

In ALL areas!

 

[GAMike]

Got a plan as well... Hope I will never need it.....

Like I have stated, I am planning on going off the grid as much as possible. Friend and family if you want to join me you are more then welcomed.

Companies are so global and flexible now that they don't fight city hall the way they used to for concessions & tax breaks (especially if they perceive they are not being listened too).... They just pack up and move/continue to make investments in countries with favorable economic conditions presently and into the forcastable future......

This is the problem Obama has, as we know...... I have not seen anything that leads me to beleive he has a plan that is encouraging to small business or the conglomerates holding billions offshore/investing in their other bases of operations. The more time goes by, the less they need to invest in America. They are being in their minds forced to adapt to the global landscape and they are... So far from Obama.... No plan... No leadership.. Just the same ole tough guy rhetoric.. It has to come from his administration 1st..... Lets hope in these next couple weeks he backs away from this approach... It does not work.

Recent history shows raising taxes actually help. The first decade of the new century under tax cuts, was already on pace. By 2007 the economy was already on pace for its slowest decade of growth since World War II. Then the collapse happened and erased the less than mediocre gains.
Reagan raised taxes, as did Bush Senior and Clinton, but most of the taxes have been cut over the last 12 years.
In my opinion, tax cuts have not necessarily helped. Raising taxes, closing loopholes could be the medicine we are looking for. It tastes terrible going down, but is for our overall health


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[rayjay]

By any name you want to call it, its still a disaster. God help us. :shake: