Turbocharged Coyote/6R80 Swap, Build/Discussion Thread, Pics, info inside!

That's pretty incredible. Like Bob said, you may've milked every last pony you could out of tuning. Exhaust would be your next option to try & get some more kick. Stock Marauder exhaust is 2.25", and I'm not quite sure what stock Mustang/F150 diameter was, but I've found power through a 2.5" Pypes X-pipe, & Black Widow Venom 250s, with full 2.5" tubing. Give it a crack!
 
Fastbob said:
Alan, I think you got all the HP out of it that was available. I am pretty sure your Marauder would have ran right with the stock 2008 Bullitt Mustang that I owned. Excellent job.
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Thank you Bob!

Joe Walsh said:
That is so cool!

Watching and listening to that Coyote motor hit shifts at 6500 rpm!

You looked like you were in a Fast&Furious movie with the laptop running on the passenger's seat while drag racing!! ..... love it.

BTW: Mid-high 13s it is!....;)
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Haha, good thing the 'Danger to Manifold' warning didn't pop up! Every run was logged and i'm working on compiling the data. Tuning the Coyote is a bit of a challenge coming from the GEN 3 LS stuff which had 2 base timing tables. The Coyote has 32 individual tables that have to be changed and blended, ideally. I'm currently running 26 degrees lead time with a Lambda of .830 on the wide bands. Shift points are a little less than ideal at 65-6700 (I'd like to see 6900-7k) but i'm still working out some things on the trans shift tuning and didn't want to risk hitting the limiter of 7100 while I finish up getting the shift points spot on, so I just ran as-is on that aspect.

How much is left on the table there? Probably .1 at best. I feel if anything, the stock exhaust might be a factor, but I don't forsee much there either, and still debating if I should add in some cut outs before it couples to the stock Marauder exhaust or just let it be as it's getting reworked for the turbo here shortly anyhow.
 
truly inspiring work, including your racing and analysis.
so, 13.87 run on my 13.77 prediction = I WIN!! :banana:

I figured I was maybe ~ tenth optomistic, but for sure didn't think you would be above 13.9X - unless weather bogged it down.
I'd call it a win, and go for the turbo as your focul point of optimizing the tuning.
Nothing left to prove n/a.
:beer:
 
Did you post pictures of the modified OEM Coyote shorty headers?
I wonder how hard it would be to fit Mustang Coyote aftermarket long tube headers for maximum N/A performance...?
I realize that you won't go this route as a turbo is in the works.

I am seriously considering this type swap in the future.
 
chief455 said:
truly inspiring work, including your racing and analysis.
so, 13.87 run on my 13.77 prediction = I WIN!! :banana:

I figured I was maybe ~ tenth optomistic, but for sure didn't think you would be above 13.9X - unless weather bogged it down.
I'd call it a win, and go for the turbo as your focul point of optimizing the tuning.
Nothing left to prove n/a.
:beer:
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Appreciate that!

Joe Walsh said:
Did you post pictures of the modified OEM Coyote shorty headers?
I wonder how hard it would be to fit Mustang Coyote aftermarket long tube headers for maximum N/A performance...?
I realize that you won't go this route as a turbo is in the works.

I am seriously considering this type swap in the future.
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I got a little lax in pictures around the time of the exhaust work, however only the RH manifold had to have the back 2 tubes re-worked. I cut them off and re-built them, this was the final product. I also had to clamp the manifold and heat up the remaining tubes as it had to be flared in more towards the motor to clear the frame. I had about 3-4 hours in those modifications give/take. On the longtubes, it's hard to say how they would fit.

The driver side, was a direct bolt-in as far as the OEM shorty headers go. I did however slightly crimp the tube by the steering shaft, for added clearance

This is the RH reworked Mustang shorty. Back 2 tubes re-done:

20150807_123714_zpspzkuwpux.jpg
 
Also, i'm working on a new amusement park ride, it's called the black bouncer. The track was sticky as heck, and not being in the water box (I was doing a few burnouts to appease my inner child being on street rubber) produces quite the hop from the 'ole air ride at this lower power level. My old Vic was similar, but after the stall converter it was all alleviated when you can get into the power quickly.

As demonstrated in the video, until I get it spun up, it was a bit of a bounce....lol. The in-car is equally as entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UraYFjbnL_I
 
What your car would sound like with headers and cut outs. Forgive my wife's video skills...

This was the last run she ever did with the automatic.

http://youtu.be/8ePs5H4210s

Funny how you had to tweak your header in on the right and I had to tweak Cobra LT's out. Or your last two tubes reworked and my front two on the drivers side!


Builder Of Badassery
 
That sounds so intimidating to say the least! Something about these cars with their already aggressive looks, backed up with throat like that, screams bad ass.
 
96gt4.6 said:
That sounds so intimidating to say the least! Something about these cars with their already aggressive looks, backed up with throat like that, screams bad ass.
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quoted for truth!

your reworked header resulted in a tri-y shorty. If the other side is similar tube length, bet those and 2.5" full exhaust would support flow up to ~550rwhp...

Someone will get long tubes fabbed for this swap, - in ten years, as used part availability and experience progress, we'll see several of these Coyote/Panthers running around, maybe catch up to the amount of Eaton swapped cars :confused:
 
Got an update from Eric @ HP Tuners, they have successfully bypassed the E-Pats on the Coyote ECU's at this time, and have requested my unit back to finish it out. Sweet, means I can remove my 'fix' for good! Going to wait until after the car show i'm attending in a week, and the final race of the year here at our track.

With the cool October air coming in, i'm hoping for a mid 13 sec pass to end out the year naturally aspirated, den it's time for some metal work and fabrication!

I will keep you guys updated on the EPATS fix, once I get the ECU back and try it. Eric also said this will be integrated into the HP Tuners VCM Scanner program so that no ECU's will have to be mailed to them. ETA was sometime between now and possibly end of year.

I'm also working on compiling all my pics from the swap, and completing the swap write up thread, at which time I will concur with the admin's here to see if it's something they are interested in making a sticky or nay. This thread will continue on with the build as it progresses.
 
96gt4.6 said:
Got an update from Eric @ HP Tuners, they have successfully bypassed the E-Pats on the Coyote ECU's at this time, and have requested my unit back to finish it out. Sweet, means I can remove my 'fix' for good! Going to wait until after the car show i'm attending in a week, and the final race of the year here at our track.

With the cool October air coming in, i'm hoping for a mid 13 sec pass to end out the year naturally aspirated, den it's time for some metal work and fabrication!

I will keep you guys updated on the EPATS fix, once I get the ECU back and try it. Eric also said this will be integrated into the HP Tuners VCM Scanner program so that no ECU's will have to be mailed to them. ETA was sometime between now and possibly end of year.

I'm also working on compiling all my pics from the swap, and completing the swap write up thread, at which time I will concur with the admin's here to see if it's something they are interested in making a sticky or nay. This thread will continue on with the build as it progresses.
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good stuff.
If you make a write up, consolidated and with pictures, of this swap - it would be CRAZY not to make it a new thread and a sticky!
Can't wait to see your boost install...
 
Very nice, detailed build thread. I appreciate you taking the time to share this information with everyone! :beer:

I'm buying a '62 Fairlane roller from my brother this winter that I hope to start collecting similar conversion parts for. If you come across any more deals on engines/trans, let me know.

8UWITH6...what's up Neil?? :burnout:
 
Milner said:
Very nice, detailed build thread. I appreciate you taking the time to share this information with everyone! :beer:

I'm buying a '62 Fairlane roller from my brother this winter that I hope to start collecting similar conversion parts for. If you come across any more deals on engines/trans, let me know.

8UWITH6...what's up Neil?? :burnout:
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No prob! I got into turbo LS setups years ago because of the information shared through forums and kindness of others, this is my way of repaying the community.

on the engine deals, I use www.car-part.com to locate pullouts. Give each yard a call, some will work with you more than others on entire pullouts/wiring/ect. In my case, I found a yard that would do the entire pullout with hoses/ect (notice how my upper hose re-used the stock F150 spring-lock type connector with a different radiator hose?), this will save you a lot of $$ in nickel and dime stuff.

Also, if going F150 and using my bypass technique, you can request the Body module from the donor pickup, along with the steering column so you get the PATS antenna and key as I did. Both of those cost me a addition $100 or so.

IT SHOULD be noted, that you CANNOT use my bypass technique on a Mustang computer/pullout. the Mustang ECU looks for the PATS request signal from the insturment cluster as that's were it's contained vs. the F150 has it in the BCM. I have flashed my ECU to a full Mustang over write, and attempted to re-learn the computer to look for the PATS but it will not look in the BCM if it's coded as Mustang. So, keep that in mind. I have cross referenced F150 AND Mustang ECU's pin/pin and electrically they are identical so they are interchangeable. Therefore, if you have a Mustang powertrain pullout, you could use an F150 ECU on the harness and be just fine as long as you re-work the F150's computer programming for the swap. Once HP Tuners gets their PATS bypass integrated into the scanner program, most of this paragraph will be obsolete. ETA was sometime between now and end of year last I visited with him. So, for now, those of us trailblazers with the 6R80 have only three options. 1. - Lund Racing's EPATS bypass, 2. - HP Tuners bypass (must contact Eric directly at HPT and requires ECU mail-in), 3. - Use the F150 ECU/BCM method I've outlined.

The F150 ECU is fine to use. With HP you can calibrate it to whatever your desire, the box simply controls the outputs based on your tune data. Now, one area where this will differ is when I finish hooking up the cruise control, as the Mustang ECU frimware looks for hard wired inputs into the computer from the steering wheel switch pack, vs. the F150's cruise inputs are received over the HS and MS CAN network via the BCM and SCCM modules.

More on that as I progress into full integration. At this point, the cruise is all that's left to integrate.
 
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Headers for this swap is simple. Like stupid simple.
Call Stainless works and have them install Coyote flanges instead of Marauder Flanges.

It's really THAT easy
 
^^ oh how I miss those cartoons!

One caveat I might add about using the F150 ECU v. Mustang:

The F150 is a Flex Fuel (E85) compatible vehicle. Therefore, if you use an F150 pullout with ECU, you have the capability of running E85 right out of the box. Now, in the past this required a flex fuel sensor in the tank or fuel line to sense the alcohol and allow the computer to make necessary adjustments.

This is NOT the case with the Copperhead ECU. All newer Ford's infer alcohol content. This is accomplished by using the fuel trim data to sense the alcohol present. How it works, after a fuel up event (the ECU had a fuel level input from the sender) the PCM begins it's alcohol re-learn strategy. It's pretty quick to adapt I might add, usually within a few miles it will lock in the ethanol content.

Also, after a clear DTC's command is issued via scan tool, it begins the re learn process.

Now, this is VERY dependent on how close the initial tuning is.....if your MAF curve is off due to a custom CAI or relocated MAF, it can affect this, so it's important your fuel trim data is 100% accurate before you switch the Ethanol system on in the tune, or it will infer wrong and the entire thing will be off.

From what I'm told, this is also available on the Mustang ECU if you have a combination of HP Tuners and SCT's software, this Is accomplished by using SCT's software to insert the necessary Alcohol tables into the tune, and HP has the ability to enable/disable the Ethanol system.

Some might be asking about the OE Marauder's fuel system compatibility with Ethanol. Most cars manufactured since the late 90's have a degree of Alcohol compatibility, as pump 87-93 has been 'blended' since then. Ford even knows this as all the factory tuning is done around a 14.08 Stoich point (10% Alcohol). It's NOT as corrosive and bad as it was originally made out to be, unless you drive 2 miles a year and leave the ethanol sit in your tank, neither of which a car of this build would be doing.

How does this play into things? Having the ability to run Ethanol with boost is like having 110 race fuel in the tank all the time. The Octane rating is excellent for what us boosted guys use it for, in addition the Ethanol provides a cooling effect to the air charge.

I'm excited to mess with the E85 system on this ECU when I go boosted here shortly!
 
Excellent info on the alcohol detection technique. This is down with an ordinary O2 sensor, not wideband? Does it stumble a bit as it figures it out?
 
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