3 Great years and more to come...

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I liked the color scheme. Can we have that option at least Logan?

Most of what I posted was just needling Mike and Dave. No harm guys.

RedRauder
 
Well Logan I am glad my first impression of why you may have created 'the darkside' was true. (although I have met you, you are a Canadian from Alberta, so I wasn't completely sure ;) )
Cover the table with brown paper, lay out some crayons, leave the room and see what the kids come up with.........sometimes it isn't pretty.

I'm glad it has ended this way, with the darkside gone, and it's association with mm.net. MercuryMarauder.net is too valuable to too many good people to jeopardise.

Anyone who really loved 'the darkside' and feels strongly about it, is certainly free to recreate it on their own.
 
Boy! Take a few days away from the PC and I miss all the fun! Anyway, Logan, I offered a long time ago to assist when you first asked for volunteer moderators, and I'll again offer my unsolicited, inexperienced services again!
 
Here's my take..... Logan and his moderators are under no obligation to explain anything to anyone, and I fully agree that this is NOT a democracy, nor should any online board be a democracy. I was a moderator on a board for a year, and that board wasn't a democracy either. There are things about how this board is run, and about how some of the rules are enforced that I don't particularly agree with. But that doesn't matter, because it isn't my board, and I choose to be here of my own free will. Niether Logan nor any of his moderators are forcing me to stay.


Let me also explain that despite certain things that I don't agree with here, overall this is a great board for Marauder owners, and I've gained a lot of helpful and fantastic knowledge about my Marauder by being a member here. Had it not been for this board, my Marauder would still be a 15 second car rather than a 12 second car like it presently is.

Having explained all of that, I also want to say that I don't believe that this "experiment" proved much of anything. Again, let me make it clear that Logan is under no obligation to any of us to prove anything. He's started up and maintained the most informative board on the internet about Marauders. I'm merely pointing out that this so called "experiment" was anything but objective. It wasn't exactly what you would call a "double blind" study. :)

Right or wrong, all the moderator bashing that took place on that other board would NOT have been there if there really weren't any mods to begin with. Sure there weren't any mods over there (I mean moderators), but since that board wasn't really anything else than an extension of this board, then in essence, what we had over there was merely part of this board. Does that mean that I'm saying that no mods are needed? Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that we started out with some rather strict rules (meaning over here), and then for merely a couple days, we went to entirely the other extreme. So ofcourse that would open the flood gates, and even invite people to lash out.

So the stage for all types of brutal comedian type posts was set. As well as for posts about dissatisfied customers too who were never previously allowed to voice their veiwpoints about certain issues. All of the frustrations and dissappointments of some members that took years to be built up during the lifespan of this board here, were suddenly allowed to be unleashed all at once over at that other board. So ofcourse it was chaotic. How would it be otherwise? And to let such a board exist only for a couple days is not any realistic proof that such a board would be that way always, or that it would continue to get worse and worse had it been allowed to remain on the net.

There would've been a point where people would've gotten certain things out of their system, and where the attempts at humorous posts laced with four letter words would have gotten real old, and therefore would've tapered off atleast to some extent. It wouldn't have completely stopped all together, but it would NOT have remained as it was with the same intensity that it was. So I don't think that this so called "experiment" proved much of anything since it's entire premise wasn't even serious nor realistic. And not having any rules nor mods to enforce them at all is simply the other extreme of what this board is. So we've seen two extremes IMO. Neither one is realistic. However that doesn't change the fact that this is one seriously beneficial board overall to it's members (myself included) and that's what has kept me here.

I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.
 
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Logan, I totally agree with what you posted. Thank You and Mary and Dan for
keeping this site a place I can visit and enjoy. Keep up the good work.

I was leery about the new site and got more and more worked up as I saw it
unfold.

It turned out to be an interesting but very disturbing experience.

:sweat: I'm glad it's over.
Now, I can get off the blood pressure medicine. :lol:
 
It was Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock" and his anthropology study of the EK which best describes what happened here. It took the EK a single generation to revert; but in Logan's experiment, it took us a single day.

Now, using the dark side as an example, follow your thoughts to what will become of us as a nation if those who want to destroy us are not stopped.

Hey Logan: :neener:

You shouldn't do things like that to old people. ;)
 
Logan said:
If only the entire Marauder community was as genuine and as caring as Maury. Truly something to aspire to. :up:
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Maury is the probably the best relationship I have ever had with an elderly person. It's because the man's enthusiasm and energy is limitless. Even when he gets twisted about something (and he does, doesn't he DFW?:director: ) he has a real sense of class. He's the glue holding our local group together. Ride on, Pop Pop Marauder!
 
The best part about it is that I bought the movie rights to the whole thing! :D

And yes Todd, Dom Delouise will be playing me.
 
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Mike Poore said:
It was Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock" and his anthropology study of the EK which best describes what happened here. It took the EK a single generation to revert; but in Logan's experiment, it took us a single day.

Now, using the dark side as an example, follow your thoughts to what will become of us as a nation if those who want to destroy us are not stopped.

...
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This experiment really make us think that unfortunatly, after the last 200 years or so of recent evolution (science, education and all), we're only need 24 or 48 hours to go back to jungle time.

I won't look at cops waiting behind a bridge on the highway (to keep us civilized) the same way anymore... Who would have though i would say that !!! :D

Logan and accomplices, keep up the good work. :)
 
I guess my question is what the heck were the admins expecting? Unrestricted forums like the darkside exist on plenty of other automotive forums with the exact same results. Why would it be any different if the users here had such an outlet? I for a change was mildly relieved that people were actually going to be able to speak of their experiences here freely...nope. But, what became apparent and I hope are heeded are vendor/customer and moderator/subscriber issues that need addressing.

Yet this dismay I'm sensing over the anarchy that took place seems unjustified, nevermind the fact that it seems the motives behind the darkside were childish and clicky at best... especially if one of the motivations was to try to get people to look bad. And perhaps these antics are going to have unintended consequences, such as people thinking twice about giving money to a site and vendors that in my opinion embarked on a mission to try to set up a population of the users, and personally speaking I was given plenty of reason not to further support the aforementioned parties due to my experiences last year. I stand by the few posts I had over there, wish I could have posted them here. You don't like your subscribers here...hit the ban button and move on. These elaborate theatrics, i.e. the Darkside, are absurd.
 
Thanks for the comments, positive and otherwise.

I will actually work on porting the color scheme over here, as I can actually allow the user to select their preferred color scheme, so I will make that happen. I actually liked it too. :)

Underlying point was for people to get off our backs. We moderate for a reason, because if we don't it goes to hell in a handbag in an instant. The rules on the darkside were no different than any other unmoderated site, everyone made it what it was. Was it absurd? I don't think so, I'd honestly of been happy to leave it up if people could prove me wrong.

So to that end, some people were able to handle it, I'm still toying with the idea of a Opt-in subforum, where people can go to debate with less restriction. It wouldn't change our moderating from the perspective of vendor, or moderator attacks, but conversations like the Fuel Octane/Performance thread would be allowed to continue through their natural course.
 
Donny Carlson said:
I have a grass skirt that's cheap and thouroughly used. Very frew Gold Bond stains, too. My size, you can use it to house at least three Samoan families in a pinch.
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It's reaching out like this that make this place so special. I am weepy now. You've touched me, Donny. (And I will have to report that to your parole officer.)
 
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Glad it's over. I never went there,didn't want to. Scared me when the site was down for a while last night. Oddly enough Mcgaffy intersepted a virus about the same time, not sure what site it came from,went to a couple of weather sites about the same time.

Thanks for a great site to all the mods.
 
Logan said:
I will actually work on porting the color scheme over here, as I can actually allow the user to select their preferred color scheme, so I will make that happen. I actually liked it too. :)
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Thank you
Logan said:
Underlying point was for people to get off our backs. We moderate for a reason, because if we don't it goes to hell in a handbag in an instant. The rules on the darkside were no different than any other unmoderated site, everyone made it what it was. Was it absurd? I don't think so, I'd honestly of been happy to leave it up if people could prove me wrong.
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WE can see the job you and the others do, thanks for keeping it going.
Logan said:
I'm still toying with the idea of a Opt-in subforum, where people can go to debate with less restriction. It wouldn't change our moderating from the perspective of vendor, or moderator attacks, but conversations like the Fuel Octane/Performance thread would be allowed to continue through their natural course.
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THAT is what I am talking about.
:D
 
Well, I'm glad that things seem to be resolved, hopefully some good ??? came out of it. Yes I'm one of those who did'nt realize what and how much goes on behind the scenes that the moderaters and vendors have to deal with, so for me it helps my understanding of how this site works.
I was truly afraid that the D/S was reelly going to really screw up this site, and realized last nite when the site went down just how much I depend on and enjoy this site that is devoted to the MM. And I love my MM., so I guess I could say that I love this site too even if I don't post a lot.
As has been said, if I don't like it I do have a choice, don't particapate or leave.

THANK YOU LOGAN, MARY, DAN AND DENNIS :burnout:

JIM
 
BillyGman said:
I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.
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Billy...... It is YOUR FAULT I have a Marauder.... (just thought I'd throw that in here)

I agree with all you posted above. I was thinking very similar things as I sat here downing my morning Cheerios and getting ready to resume my install of 0105.

I have several points I want to make....

1. From a purely scientific aspect the "experiment" called the Darkside was invalid. The way the alternate board was presented, the disclaimers, the very name established the fact that the board was going to be an anything goes board. Much the same as a disclaimer on a porno site makes it very clear that you aren't risking seeing a "little skin" you are going to see some very graphic pictures. So, I believe some of the people posting on the Darkside are, by nature, as crass as they came across, others were just briefly "letting their hair down" in the spirit of the moment. So I don't believe the experiment is a vindication of the LEVEL of moderation we have here, only an example of how extreme it MIGHT be if we had no moderation.

2. Groups, clubs, society in a whole are self-regulating. If a member of a group conducts themselves in a manner that is unacceptable by the group, the group censors them. The problem member is ignored, asked to leave, given the cold shoulder, etc. Different groups have different levels of tolerance for individuals that push the boundaries of acceptable behavior. However, this dynamic doesn't work quite as well online. The anonymity associated with the virutal world breeds conduct that wouldn't normally happen in the physical world. Additionally, we have how many people transit this site and we don't even know they were here? This board is not a closed community in the same sense that a group in the physical world is. So it does require different means to enforce the "group norm". The moderators provide this different means. If they are too strict, we do have a way to address it with them or vote with our virtual feet if we aren't comfortable with it. There are other options (SVTPERFORMANCE.COM for example) however, the folks that stay here do so because it is a community that functions, in a large part, the way they like it to function. We have police here to guide wayward members just as we do in physical world.

3. I do think we could use some form of Feedback forum to address different issues concerning vendors or transactions between members etc. I don't think this should be threatening to a business. A transaction between two entities witnessed by the community, is a very easy way to see who was telling the real deal. A reputable business or transaction is only vidicated by such visibility.

4. Finally, on any board, with or without rules, I think folks need to remember that there are / should be consequences tied to their conduct. In this venue it is easy to missunderstand the tone in a written communication. However, unlike real life, you don't have to make a reply or choose an option in fractions of seconds. Some one that is in your virtual face / virtual physical space is not a REAL threat to you. There is plenty of time to think out the whole process, the consequences for courses of action etc. I think some people forget this when buffered by the anonymity provided by the virtual world, or in a real sense the physical buffer. I simply cannot imagine some of the things said in this medium would actually be said face to face! I cannot help but believe that the interaction that took place on the Darkside will forever taint my impression of some of the people based upon their conduct. I wonder how it has affected other folks and their future interaction.

Summary, I won't say that I enjoyed the experiment. I think that it served a purpose, but more for the moderators than for the membership. It was the picture that was worth a thousand moderator words to show us the potential for anarchy that exists in an unmoderated environment. Yet, to an extent I think it was the "easy way out". As an analogy, when you explain to your child why they shouldn't touch a hot burner on the stove, you spend a lot of words, but you don't grab their hand on put it on a hot burner. Obviously the latter action will certainly make the message very clear! But it isn't what you would do. So I think the Darkside was putting people's hand on the burner. I am not sure we needed to do that as justification for level of moderation we have on this board.

These opinions are mine... (perhaps I can pass them off as Billy's :rolleyes: ). Your mileage may vary!
 
Marauderman can finally Speak!

WOW--My head is spinning --It's been like a real bad dream and you wake up and it's all over--it wasn't real at all!!!

I speant most all of last night reading post after post about this whole thing--and my head was spinning --why-I just wasn't gonna believe what I was seeing---there had to be something to all this---

..and to that end -came the end---it turn out to be a bad dream (in a way)---

I personnally agree with all the positive comments--rather than say them over and over again--

and am glad our Vendor(s) is/are no longer targets openingly --


I , like so many others, am thankful for what Logan and the moderators bring to the screen--as others have said--this is where we started and this is where we meet between meets-- IT'S ALL ABOUT CARS FOLKS..AND THE FRIENDS WE HAVE MADE IS PRICELESS!

That bad dream better not ever show up again!!!---YA'll are great!------Tom
 
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