Cam Swap Info?

[RacerX]

If you are talking about zack. Then it's because my ps head was destroyed.

Oh snap! That's right! I forgot you had the bad head too! Kept thinking it was just the cam gear install!

 

[massacre]

If you are talking about zack. Then it's because my ps head was destroyed.

Sorry to hear your head was destroyed.

 

[musclemerc]

Can't wait to get it back. Hopefully going up there with bodyman on Sunday.
I will post the dyno numbers when I get it done.

I got the feeling your gonna be VERY SATISFIED, Zack has been boosted for year's. If he say's "this is the fastest N/A Marauder he ever drove" then thats saying alot.

I gotta admit, I'm a little jealous but mine will come soon enough.
Please, do the dyno tune and make sure he does a tunned ~VS~ untunned dyno sheet. You and I can see which combination yeilds the most TQ with the 96 cam's, being you have LT's and I have Shorty's.
:burnout:

 

[RacerX]

BTW! Anyone that gets the cams, be careful!!! Don't trust whoever sold them or your machine shop as to which cams are which!!! For Ford at least. Try and get the cam bolts with the cams too. If you look in the Ford numbering system stamped in each, this is the key:

Passenger Intake Cam F6ZE-6A270-AA
Passenger Exhaust Cam F2LE-6A272-AE
Driver Intake Cam F6ZE-6A271-AA
Driver Exhaust Cam F2LE-6A273-AE

0, 1, 2, 3 PI, DI, PE, DE
Can't go wrong.

This is from Todd's posting elsewhere:
F6ZE6A270AB and F6ZE6A270AB are the engineering numbers which both equate to part #F6ZZ-6250-AA. it is a 96-98 4V right intake cam (PS- Passenger Side).

F2LE6A272AF and F2LE6A272AE both equate to F3LY-6250-C which is a 96-99 4V right exhaust cam (PS-Passenger Side).

Aslo courtesy of Todd (Thank you!):

Mach 1, 03/04 Cobra, Aviator, Marauder, Navigator
Intake: 184 deg @ .050/.397" lift Exhaust: 196 deg @ .050/.397" lift
114 LCs

96-98 Cobra
intake PN#s
F6ZE-6A270-AB crosses to F6ZZ-6250-AA
F6ZE-6A271-AB crosses to F6ZZ-6250-BA
Intake: 202-204 deg @.050/ .397 lift
Exhaust: 196 deg @.050/.397 lift
114/114 LCs

99/01 Cobra
Intake: 200 deg @.050/.397 lift
Exhaust: 196 deg @.050/.397 lift
114 LCs

FR500 (M-6550-T46)
intake: 212 deg @.050 /.472 lift
exhaust: 208 deg @.050 /.472 lift
109 LCs

GT Cams: (actual as tested numbers, not Ford specs)
Intake: 189 @ .050"/.424 lift
Exhaust: 190 @ .050"/.448" lift
The centerline is up for debate as this set tested at 122/118 but I think Ford states the LCs as 114/114

Cobra R specs:
Intake: .515'' lift 212 deg dur @.050
Exhaust: .468'' lift 212 deg dur @.050

P.S. Cloyes Part #'s, Cloyes Gear: S790HP9
Cloyes Woodruff Key: P9139
You need two of each, one for each intake valve and four of each if you want to change the exhaust cams also.
BTW! If anyone has noticed, the exhaust are the exact same for Cobra and Marauder cams. You will not gain or lose anything by keeping your existing exhaust cams. Not to mention, that's two less cam bolts you worry about. Our cam bolt size is: m10x1.5 and the Cobras are: m12x1.5

Cam Gear Instructions (These don't usually ship with the product):
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showfull.php?photo=18821
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showfull.php?photo=18822

If anyone is interested in overlap, duration, etc., this will give you a visual idea of what's going on. Enter stock duration numbers, print out the page, enter advanced/new cam numbers, print that page out, overlay the two pages and hold them up to a light. http://classictiger.com/mustang/CamChart/CamChartCandDr1.htm

 

[musclemerc]

Here is another cam swap on a 4v engine. It looks like 20HP/22TQ is the baseline for doing a Dot-to-Dot install. These wer just bolt in, non degreed and non advanced.

The graph is originally posted by Modularspeed:

It's a good time to be N/A.
Guy's like Nick McKinney, Modularspeed and NA_SVT are on the frontline comming up with potent N/A combination's that are on the cheap, and they're backing it all up with dyno result's.

Here is an 4v engine Nick from Modularheadshop is preparing to build:
http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112989

 

[RacerX]

Slow poke! Mine have been in almost a year. Spoke to Todd over a year ago. You still haven't put me on the na top numbers list. :alone:

 

[musclemerc]

Ohhhhhh.....
I know you did your's a year ago. I believe I may have even found the cams for you but, your dyno number's did'nt get you to the top of the list.
I know for a fact you have found out what was wrong and fixed it, but then you go Eaton Swap before a redoing the dyno WTH?
Got rid of the PSRI and all the other N/A goodie's after 1 failure. :shake:

Try, try, again! LOL!

Now you gotta give me number's for the S/C list so we can prove Eaton w/98 Cobra cam's plus all the P&P work you've been busy doing.

 

[RacerX]

I have a dyno sheet na that's above others on that na list... It's even stronger now NA, but, we all want more now don't we? BTW! Here's another good link for anyone interested. SOHC and DOHC towards the middle of the page: http://arrc.epnet.com/autoapp/8823/8823CH03_Timing_Chain_and_Gears.htm

P.S. The only failure was less HP and TQ gain than I expected. 360 crank HP and being able to run over 6k rpm strong is a win in my book. Not bad for my first ever engine teardown and build all by myself...

More pretty diagrams and instructions for 4.6l DOHC engines: http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-6004-A464.pdf

 

[BigCars4Ever]

Here is another cam swap on a 4v engine. It looks like 20HP/22TQ is the baseline for doing a Dot-to-Dot install. These wer just bolt in, non degreed and non advanced.

The graph is originally posted by Modularspeed:

It's a good time to be N/A.
Guy's like Nick McKinney, Modularspeed and NA_SVT are on the frontline comming up with potent N/A combination's that are on the cheap, and they're backing it all up with dyno result's.

Here is an 4v engine Nick from Modularheadshop is preparing to build:
http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112989

Don't know if you caught this but the run with stock cams was at 65 deg f and the 96 cams was at 86 deg f. There could have been another couple of hp if the second pull was at the cooler temp.

 

[na svt]

Most cammed automatic mach 1s and marauders perform poorly and that's because the off-the-shelf specs stink; too much duration, high intake LCs, wide LSAs. I would never install an intake cam in a Marauder with a LC higher than 108...never. In fact, if the duration is too long to get the required PTV at a 106LC they would not be used at all, not even at a higher LC.

According to Ford the stock LCs are 114/114, but those that I've checked are closer to 118/111 (on average) which is terrible for tq but great for mileage. I've found that degreeing even the stock cams to 108/114 can increase tq by 20ft lbs while not hurting HP. I've seen 03/04 cobras pick up 35ft lbs with the stock cams at the same lobe centers.

Nothing improves driveability of a heavy automatic trans car like a boost in tq and ensuring the cams are the optimum LCs ensures the combo is making the most tq possible.

I don't think he has a SC...
I know what you mean Dennis, the '96 cams make power higher in the rpm's than the stock cams. Big heavy cars need torque down low, so even if it pulls good up top the car will be a pig because it can't get off the line.

Cobra cams installed at a 108 lobe center will make both more tq and hp than a stock cammed combo.

The peak hp gains are minimal when degreeing/advancing the cams, but the further the away the cams are from their optimum LCs the higher the gains will be. IMO the real benefit of degreeing, and especially advancing the cams is the hp/tq gain prior to making peak power (under the curve). Below is a good example of degreed/advanced vs undegreed dot-to-dot (stock intake, no headers):

This is an N/A mod only. Installing these cams in a boosted motor would absolutely be the wrong move, you're totally right about that.

Cobra cams installed at 110 are a great FI mod, I've seen big gains. You can add another 15 degrees to the intake cams before the exhaust cam duration must be increased.

That makes sense on doing one in reverse. So If I need 2* advance the DS 2* then retard the PS 2* and it will all equal out. I guess the PS runs in a reverse rotation?

no.

 

[RacerX]

I think Travis realises that the cam gears are relative, both sides have marks, you would be advacing both 2° in the same direction, just the ps gear is flipped (which I don't remember having to flip the PS cam gears, but, that's what someone in the engine at the time said had to be done).

 

[musclemerc]

Thats correct Bill, I kept your PM after you, Todd, and Zack figured the PS gear out.

BTW Thanks Todd for chiming in, it's good to see you post over here for a change. Keep'em comming Brother

Reguards,

Travis

 

[RacerX]

Degreeing​

4-Valve Camshafts​

Required Tools:
· Ford service tool # T93P-9589-AH (camshaft lock tool)
· Ford service tool # T93P-6256-A (camshaft positioning tool)
· Dial indicator with 4” extension
· Screw-in post for dial indicator
· Positive-stop tool
· Solid valve adjuster
· Timing wheel
· Pointer

1. Install the camshafts in the cylinder head. Use assembly lube on camshaft journal surfaces. Check that the proper camshaft is in the correct location. You can check the Ford part numbers stamped on each. Torque the camshaft caps using the Ford torque values and pattern.
2. With the number one piston at TDC (Top Dead Center), attach the secondary camshaft gears and short chains, matching the copper colored links to marks on the gears. Do not install the camshaft keys. Ensure the camshaft keyways are pointed down.
3. Use Ford positioning tool T93P-6256-A to locate camshafts by inserting tool into the slots in the rear of the camshafts. Some aftermarket camshafts may or may not have these slots.
4. Install the primary gears and chains, matching the copper colored links to the marks on the crankshaft and camshaft gears. If there are no marks on the chains, pull each chain tight in a line and mark the opposite two links.
5. Lock the camshafts with the camshaft lock tool and torque with the camshaft bolts to 95 ft lbs.
6. Check the valve adjuster preload. Using a collapsed valve adjuster, check the preload by installing the valve adjuster and a rocker arm. With the rocker arm touching the camshaft base circle, mount the dial indicator so the extension rests on the adjuster end of the rocker arm. Zero the dial indicator, and using the rocker arm installation tool, cycle the valvespring up and down. Without the rocker arm losing contact with the camshaft, measure the range of valve adjuster preload. The correct range of preload is 0.040 to 0.080 in.
7. Install the timing wheel and pointer, set it to TDC.
8. Rotate crankshaft clockwise 90° and install the positive stop tool in the number one spark plug hole.
9. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise until you reach the stop and record the number displayed on the wheel.
10. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise until you reach the positive stop again and record the number displayed on the wheel.
11. Split the difference and move the timing wheel to the center of the range of movement. For example: If the first reading was 42° BTDC and the second was 44° ATDC, the wheel should be moved so each end of the range of movement reads 43°. The wheel is now centered. Check the readings in both directions one more time and remove the TDC tool.
12. Install the solid adjuster and rocker arm on the number 6 cylinder exhaust lobe.
13. Set the dial indicator extension on the valve retainer, and then zero the indicator.
14. Rotate the engine clockwise until 0.050 of valve opening is measured. Record the valve opening number observed on the degree wheel.
15. Continue rotating the crankshaft, measuring the total valve lift, and stop the rotation of the crankshaft when the valve is within 0.050 inches of the seat again. Record the valve closing number.
16. Using the camshaft lock tool, lock the camshaft and loosen the cam bolt.
17. With the camshaft still locked in place, rotate the crankshaft to the desired closing point. There is a range of 3-4° available with the slop in the camshaft gear key and the camshaft. If you need to move the camshaft more than the amount available, grind the integral key on the primary exhaust gear to allow a greater range of adjustment. Or install Cloyes adjustable cam gears. Parts #s: Gear: S790HP9 Woodruff Key: P9139 Two of each are needed for intake and four if adjusting exhaust cams as well as intake cams.
18. Torque the camshaft bolt to 95 ft lbs and remove the lock.
19. Check open and close points as before and adjust as necessary.
20. Once the exhaust camshaft is degreed in, you can move to the intake camshaft, since the exhaust camshaft drives the intake camshaft. Any change in timing on the exhaust camshaft will require adjusting the intake camshaft.
21. With cylinder number 6 timed, move over to the passenger-side cylinder head, setting up on cylinder number one. The intake camshaft on the passenger side cylinder head will lag behind as the tensioner is compressed. It is necessary to hold the tensioner in the extended position, simulating the engine in a running condition, in order to properly time the passenger intake camshaft. Complete the checking and adjusting process, as previously done on the left head, and then you are finished.

This is the Ford numbering system stamped in each cam, the actual part numbers will vary in engines and carry over to new numbers as some become obsolete:

Passenger Intake Cam F6ZE-6A270-AA
Passenger Exhaust Cam F2LE-6A272-AE
Driver Intake Cam F6ZE-6A271-AA
Driver Exhaust Cam F2LE-6A273-AE

0 being PI-Passenger Intake
1 being DI-Drivers Intake
2 being PE-Passenger Exhaust
3 being DE-Drivers Exhaust

 

[musclemerc]

Thanks for the post Bill.

You just made this thread a sticky

 

[na svt]

degree instructions

I recommend the centerline method which takes less time and is much more forgiving.

 

[CBT]

this has turned into a very info rich thread :beer:

 

[RacerX]

Todd, as usual, your wealth of knowledge is highly appreciated and someday, if we ever meet, I'll buy you a few beers or dinner. :beer:

 

[musclemerc]

I recommend the centerline method which takes less time and is much more forgiving. See attachment.

I also attached a .pdf showing part numbers for the stock cams.

Todd, as usual, your wealth of knowledge is highly appreciated and someday, if we ever meet, I'll buy you a few beers or dinner. :beer:

+1

Todd, I need you to keep posting. The more you hang out and post others will benefit from your knowlege.